KDSS Help/Swap

Hello,

Just joined today because I am having a hard time figuring what to do.

I bought a 2010 4Runner with KDSS a few months ago. I didn't know I had this system until the light came on a few weeks later, just had it in to the dealership to be looked at and the entire system is rusted through and needs full replacement. $7,900!!!

My question: is it possible to remove the KDSS system and suspension and just install an SR5? Apologies if this is a dumb question, but trying to figure my options out.

Thanks for the help!

 

I’m sorry that this happened. The answer is yes, you can swap the parts over and delete the KDSS from what I have heard.

what actually rusted?? Just out of curiosity. I hear people are having issues with mud and debris getting caught under the shield.

 

Yeah that is basically what happened. Hard to believe a vehicle as reliable as a 4Runner would have such a glaring issue with it...

 

12 year old vehicle will have some things rust if not properly cared for and even then.

 

You can delete it.

Lots of people run with removed anti sway bars.

If/when mine craps out I’m pulling it.

Same goes for my 200.

 

It's 12 year old. Did you ever remove the shield and clean the accumulator?

 

As luck would have it, there are a couple of guys here that currently have stock suspensions for sale.

https://www.4runners.com/threads/any-use-trying-to-sell-your-stock-suspension.23588/#post-305424

 

Hello!
My KDSS light is on. The dealer said a module was bad and that it will be $8k to replace it. I'm trying to dig into this and figure out what to do. I bought it used, it's a 2010 Trail edition, and they put a 3" lift on it with Bilstein shocks (sadly, i don't have any more information about this lift kit that was installed). Someplace i read that with the KDSS, you cannot lift it more than 1 or 2 inches. So i'm considering the options to remove the KDSS and convert it to a conventional 4Runner suspension. I cannot locate any conversion kits yet...... I heard that the bolts won't line up if i simply bought all the parts individually and removed the KDSS.

Is there anyone out there that has successfully converted their KDSS to conventional 4Runner suspension? I'd really appreciate the links to the kits/parts list/tips and tricks to doing this task/ and anything that can get me through this problem to a solution....

Thank you very much!

 

There can be issues if lifted too high, or if the previous owner tampered with the valves on the accumulator.

If you're not in love with the 3" lift, it could be worth swapping to shorter springs in the rear, and maybe lowering the fronts a notch.

Edit: a conversion would require significant welding. It's probably not worth doing.

If you're going to do a lot of off-roading, you could just delete the sway bars and not worry about it. With a good aftermarket suspension, you might not miss the sway bars.

Out of curiosity, is your accumulator corroded? It's on the driver's side frame rail, below the driver's door. There's a small skid plate held in by (2) 12mm bolts. Or, they might be 10's. Grab both sizes if you decide to check.

 

Thanks for your quick reply! The Toyota dealer said a "module was bad". Sadly, I've owned it for almost 4 years and have never gone off-roading. I use it for hauling and towing mostly. We do live remotely and have a 1/3 mile dirt driveway though the hilly forest, and get a lot of snow. The lift helps with the deep snow.

So you're saying after I remove the KDSS system, id just need standard 4runner sway bars and mounting hardware? Seems simple enough (depending on how many bolt ill need to cut off due to 11 years of NY winters)

 

I'm guessing they're referring to the accumulator. It's odd that a small part of an inexpensive upgrade somehow costs so much to replace. I assume it has todo with the process of filling the hydraulic fluid and calibrating the system.

EDIT: A conversion would require significant welding. I was wrong.

Otherwise, you could just delete the sway bars and see if you mind the ride without them. Some folks delete their sway bars altogether for greater articulation, and they must not hate the ride too bad.

 

The biggest question is how different are the KDSS & regular sway bar mounting brackets. It would seem there could be significant cutting and/or welding needed to remove the KDSS mounting brackets and install new ones for the standard sway bar.

 

I was thinking everything would just bolt on. I'll have to take a look under there today and see.

 

Do you have a non-KDSS & KDSS 4R to compare?

 

No. But I just assumed everything bolts onto the frame for simplicity. I'm pretty sure the steering knuckle is the same on both.

 

I'll take a look at my buddy's SR5 at work on Monday to see what, if anything, looks different as far as the sway bar mounts. I do know the steering knuckles on a KDSS 4R still have the mounting holes for the regular sway bar links, they're just not used with KDSS.

 

The mounts are definitely different. I just think all of the parts bolt on. Knowing Toyota, the frames are all the same and the rest is just bolted on.

I could be wrong, though. Wouldn't be the first time.

Edit: I WAS WRONG!

 

New to the 4R world and KDSS (not new to Toyotas). I’m kinda glad mine doesn’t have KDSS.

If it were me in your shoes I would look for a junk yard that has a totaled 5th gen and pull the sway bars off of it and replace the KDSS.

 

So if the sway bars are the only difference, I will simply get the non-kdss Toyota 4runner sway bars and hope they bolt on. I guess i'd have to see how much of the old KDSS i have to leave on versus will be able to pull out. Since mine is leaning currently 2 inches to the diver's side, i saw on Youtube that there is a possibility to fix the lean- when i went to attempt that possible fix, i broke the KDSS cover bolt head off when i put a wrench to it. Those lovely New York winters do fantastic chemistry to the underside over 11 years! Just about every bolt under there i expect to be formidable.......

 

You cannot swap in a non kdss sway bar, the frame is different on kdss vs non kdss 4runners. You can delete the system and run it without swaybars

 

I would bet the frames are identical. Think about how Toyota builds things. Do you really think they would make a completely different frame just because of a different option? I would guarantee everything having to do with kdss / non kdss sway bars can be bolted on or removed.

EDIT: Turns out I was wrong. Toyota did, in fact, weld different parts to the frames.

 

You get a chance to check out your buddy’s yet? Inquiring minds want to know.

 

Sorry, it's in the 30's here of late, and I didn't get a chance to crawl around in the parking lot today. I'll try to give it a go tomorrow, hopefully. If I can, I'll see if I can snap some photos.

One might be able to check out a youtube video of a skid plate install, those usually give a good view of the sway bar mounts...

 

unfortunately, I think you’re right. I seem to recall this being discussed by someone a while back, and the holes for the stock swaybars are in the frame, but they are not threaded…or something like that.

If somebody run without swaybars at all, it will probably give a slightly cushier road ride, but I would treat the vehicle very differently while driving it. It wont have the same level of stability if you take corners at speed (you’ll get lots more lean). I would also drive it way more conservatively on the street, because emergency avoidance maneuvers would put you at much higher risk of rolling over.

That said, it’s a truck so it really shouldnt be driven like a car anyway.

 

This gave me an idea.

Edit: see post #34 in this thread for a rundown of the actual differences.

Sort of. It looks like the holes are there, but there might be nuts welded in to hold the regular sway bar.

You can see the mounting holes in the frame of the KDSS equipped frame..







So, the holes are there, but might require adding a weld nut. Or, maybe it would be possible to get a nut inside the frame through to little access hole in the frame. Pain in the ass, but it's doable.

So, while it would potentially suck, it's not impossible. One would have to decide if it's worth the effort.

That said, I'll just delete mine entirely if there's ever an issue. Hopefully, by then, the 4Runner will be a secondary vehicle anyway.

 

This is probably the photo that @Thatbassguy got his above zoom in from, and shows the KDSS sway bar mount from further out:


I will go outside later today (currently 29 degrees) to see if I can check out the area on the frame between the top of the KDSS cylinder where it mounts and the crossmember, and see if there is a threaded nut in there somewhere, and hopefully compare that to my friend's 2018 SR5. Stay tuned...

 

What I can't seem to find a clear picture of on the internet is the mounting points for the rear sway bar on a non kdss 4Runner.

Also, the hydraulic ram on the front driver side is mounted to a hanger that is welded to the top of the frame. It's sort of hidden behind the rubber flap in the wheel well. I don't know that a non kdss 4Runner will have this part.

The holes for the mounting brackets for the non-kdss front sway bar are not threaded on my frame. The one towards the rear seems to have a metal plate behind it. So it seems like someone could potentially drill and tap that metal plate. But, the front hole would require a nut welded in, or installed from above.

At this point, I would say it's at the very least going to be a project. Personally, if my kdss failed, I would just delete it and try to reduce sway with firmer aftermarket shocks. I intend to delete it eventually anyway.

 

Where does it attach to the frame?

In some of the pictures I find it appears to attach in front of the rear shock mount to a bracket that my frame does not have. But, there is an after-market rear sway bar that appears to attach in the same way that the kdss sway bar attaches.