If you were offered good money for your 5th gen, would you sell?

I would question long term viability of these these smaller companies. Sort of like Ineos where you have one dealer per state if lucky.


My other concern is how financially stable these companies are Rivian as an example Will it be around in ten years? What is the impact on the residual value of these vehicles given the size and financial stability of these companies?

I know one thing we loved about the 5th Gen’s is they held their value well before the 6th Gen came out and now more so.

 

Completely agree. That's actually the biggest source of hesitation I have about either Lucid or Rivian as a replacement for my 5th Gen. I'm not completely sure I'm ready for electric, but I'm definitely worried about buying from a carmaker with almost no dealer support and very questionable long term parts availability. Not to mention the need for software support. I just offer them as proof of concept. They've shown they can make incredibly capable 4WD SUVs, and electric vehicles generally have shown that the tech can be very reliable, durable and low maintenance.

This is really my point. The things I most value about my 5th Gen are things that an EV might do even better. And meanwhile the 6th Gen and other new ICE SUVs are actually taking steps backwards. They put all this new tech into the 6th Gen and new Land Cruiser yet they're no faster to accelerate, have worse interior usability, and are almost certainly less reliable and durable.

This is what OP's poll is getting at. A lot of 5th Gen owners are very reluctant to give them up because the new alternatives are so disappointing. And what I'm saying is that that trend seems close to reversing -- if the alternative you're looking at is electric.

EDIT: It's much too small to be a 4R replacement for me, but I'm intrigued by the Slate. That seems to have been designed from the ground up to be extra simple to repair and maintain, as well as to modify. Simple and common / easily available parts. DIY encouraged. Broad network of repair shops, following through on Right to Repair. We'll see how it goes IRL, but it does seem very promising in concept.

 

Lucid has lost billions in value and just announced they will lay off 12% of their global workforce.

Not very confidence inspiring...

 

Agreed the big player manufacturers are moving backwards. To their credit though the government push with epa nonsense and ev push did not help and their hands were forced to a certain extent.

So now we are stuck with the 4cyl turbo bs ugh

I tip my hat to these newer tech companies but until they are are financially stable and have a good network I could not spend that sort of cash on one.

I started buying Japanese cars long ago due to residual value as one large component. The Big 3 cars did not hold their value and were unreliable.

Most vehicles lose money so why not choose one that loses its value at a slower rate and hopefully holds up better

 

Shout out to Mazda for still sticking with NA engine options with 6 speed autos.

 

I hear what you’re saying about Ineos and not a lot of dealers but they’re growing. I’m in Florida and we have 3 dealers but none as yet in my town . Strange because we have all kinds of factory dealerships here in my small town including Bentley, Rolls Royce, Ferrari, Lamborghini .

 

Yup I was in 2H. The road was salted and clear but it did have a little bit of black ice which ofc I didn't see, so it wasn't in 4H. I agree 4H would have made a difference.

 

The fact that most 4runners are part-time 4wd is a detail that a lot of times isn’t well appreciated at the time of purchase. Most, including myself, don’t see the huge convenience and usability of AWD or Full Time 4wd on the rooad, until finally realizing that it’s not always good or convenient to shift a part time 4wd into 4h. Which means that you’ll end up being in rear wheel drive on slick surfaces pretty frequently. Which means that you’re basically driving it as if it were the worst type of winter car on a regular basis…a rear wheel drive car. Which is not fun if you don’t want that extra “entertainment” lol.

Honestly, if my vehicle needed to be used by family, especially in winter, I’d be hesitant to hand the keys over until we could practice in rear wheel drive in a snowy parking lot. It’s not that I think it will actually spin out, since the stability control is pretty sharp, but it does allow for some slight rotation that could freak out an unfamiliar driver or worse, lead to unnecessary overcorrection and loss of control.

It’s definitely a vehicle that requires a level of driver skill and alertness that isn’t required for the typical AWD SUV.

 

There's all sorts of accidents out here because people overcorrect, freak out, and slam on the brakes. It's nuts!

 

You’re a nice guy if you would loan out your 4R. I don’t think I could do it unless an emergency, especially if the weather is bad.

Anymore I don’t drive in the snow unless I have to but I am fortunate to be remote. There are too many idiots out there and people with AWD and 4WD who think they are invincible and king/queen of the road.

 

That's one of the reasons why I also wanted a 4Runner, it's so mechanical and it needs a level of thinking that 99% of drivers simply don't have. I fully agree with you, AWD and full time 4X4 is useless in regular daily driving.

Hell, even the Subaru symmetrical AWD requires some thinking too. We just got the 2+ ft of snow here in NJ and my Outback does better when I turn off traction control (of course it doesn't 100% turn it off) and with x-mode it performs flawlessly in the snow. When the traction control is on, the ABS braking makes getting unstuck a bit more difficult. I purposely got myself stuck in my driveway to test it in that deep snow, turned off traction control and turned on x-mode, thing was flawless. Most Subaru owners would struggle imho. Most other manufacturers just have on-demand AWD which sucks... especially the Hyundai one it was so bad.

In my 4R, I did the same in almost 2+ ft of snow in the mountains. I went from a clean paved road to a dirt road to get to a hiking parking lot that had all that snow, so shifted into 4H but didn't turn off traction control and it was just amazing. Thing plowed through it like nothing. Toyota's ABS is seriously the best in the market.

 

Especially pick-up truck drivers. They think they're immune to snow and ice... and funny enough I have seen too many in ditches when there is snow. 2H, over inflated tires, and an empty truck bed... gee wonder what could go wrong???

 

He he my 2003 has zero traction control currently! It's awesome!! It needs a zero point calibration of something. I honestly don't want to fix it because the abs still works and I prefer the wheels to just spin when I push the gas instead of the car cutting out. What really stinks is that I'm going to have to fix it to get the lights off because when I go in to take the test to get my license the DMV automatically fails you if you have any dash lights on.

 

Yep, there's enough nanny's on my '16 to make driving uneventful but to the point of "taking control" just sucks when one wants to have fun during controlled chaos.

 

Look at Fisker too. I occasionally see an Ocean driving around and wonder how the owner gets support for an issues they may have.

I am interested to see how the Rivian R2 does. It appears to be critical to Rivian’s success. The R1S is appealing. Similar in size to the 5G 4R. We have an EV charger in our garage already and most of our driving would fit in the range of the R1S. Keep one of the 5Gs for longer road trips. But I am not ready to jump over to an R1S until Rivian as a company is on more stable ground.

 

I'll be there in a couple of years.

My wife's Outback has 190k on it and she wants an EV for her daily commute. We would still use my 4Runner for road trips.

We have solar and battery back-up on our house, as well as a charger already installed.

She really likes her Subaru, so she is eyeballing the Subaru Trailseeker coming out this year. The nice thing is that it's affordable at $40k. The hits against it are that it would be a 1st year with no history and it only has a range of 260 miles (more than enough for my wife's daily needs though).

I'm thinking we wait and see what it does for a year and if it turns out to be a descent vehicle, we purchase a used one.

I think going used is the way to go with EV's......especially since many tend to depreciate quickly. The tech could change quickly too. I also feel better about purchasing a used EV since the maintenance is not as critical as they are with ICE's.

 

I actually have a reservation on an R2 but I will pass. Their track record on quality with the R1S and R1T has been....lacking to say the least.


Like many people I am mostly interested in their R3 hatchback.

 

That's a great point. I'm almost pathologically averse to used cars (I don't defend it) but a used EV worries me less. Really, there's not much that an EV owner could do to abuse the car that wouldn't be apparent on an inspection. Don't need to worry about OCIs or choice of oil or driving hard when cold or lots of short trips or frequent pulls to redline -- things that are usually very hard to discern unless you know the seller personally.

Beyond what you can readily see and experience in test driving an EV, you really just need an idea of the battery's health. How much capacity it has left. I believe you can see that on the computer in most EVs, and you can also compare its stated estimated range to the reported range when new.

Some tips here:

https://recharged.com/articles/how-to-check-ev-battery-health

 

Wow. The Carmax purchase value went up again. For a platform that is 15 years old, this is just amazing.

 

Looks like you made up your mind, or will do soon.

What will you replace the 4R with?

 

Apparently there's a Facebook group and other spaces where owners figure/hash things out.

https://archive.ph/2026.02.24-13293...ev-owners-who-wont-let-their-broken-cars-die/

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2026/0...n-the-company-behind-its-software-goes-under/

Like Pebble smartwatches after Google/Fitbit sunset them, a lot depends on decisions made by the company both in the past and as it goes down and how those affect enthusiast fixes.

(But new Pebble hardware is indeed coming back for now with limited batches)

 

This is our second 5th gen 4R and we love it. I’ve got my eye on a 2024 4R Limited. I like it because it’s full-time 4WD.

I don’t like the front, the stance and the wheels of the Limited, but those are not primary concerns.

 

Great choice! Limiteds are great and also they have more insulation.

 

I read through the first page or two when started but I'm not going through 7 pages now

I cast my vote now that it's a poll - Hell, no

The reason for this is:

1. Originally purchased in 2019 as the "oldest" new vehicle because I wanted less, not more
2. Most reliable midsized SUV for 10 years running (at that time)
3. This was always planned for a long term doomsday/zombie apocalypse/SHTF vehicle
4. I've had the advantage of a lot of WFH so I can keep the mileage and fuel costs relatively low
5. I feel like I've modified too much at this point to ever gain back the blood, sweat, and tears in the form of money

If I have to commute again, I'd probably look for the cheapest small full electric vehicle that fits the bill and add a 3rd vehicle (wife appears to be going to Highlander Hybrid soon and that will be road trip vehicle)

 

The people buying Rivian and Ineos dont worry about those things.
The people you see buying them are Mercedes and Range Rover types who buy new at the dealer and trade out every 2 years when a new model comes out. Those people are in a different tax bracket than you and I and those people dont even worry about such puny things.

Ah'ha my man
My kinda "normal people" tax bracket type of guy
This is what makes sense to normal people who dont want to throw money away

 

My current pick is the Corolla Hybrid. 50mpg for 25k. Rides okay, but if I was commuting 50-100 miles a day, that's what I would do.

A close 2nd is the lowest trim possible Tesla model 3. At around 37k now it's not a bad value.

 

Luckily those aren't so hard to rectify! (not sure on stance though)

At least the wheels will be easy.

 

You make some valid points. People spending $80k plus on these vehicles probably don’t care about reliability as much or residual value.

I am a middle class dude, work hard, saved diligently and am blessed and grateful. I don’t need a a bunch a fancy stuff, just want to work hard, and come home and have a beer. I have a good friend who was executive that I fish with. He once told me Mac I was not made to be white collar executive as I can relate much better with the blue collar factory guys who drink beer, and go fishing and hunting.

So yeah I am not a super high income tax bracket dude and that’s fine by me. If we own 4Runners here I think we should be grateful. Many have less.

 

Oof. What a load of pretentious crap. I drove a Defender for 15 years and the wife drove 2 Land Rovers for 7 years apiece.

I think the buying decisions of most “normal” people are driven by emotion rather than logic.

 

No option for my vote in the Poll.

"Hell Yes" don't even need my money back. Why because I did it already.

I've never kept a vehicle for more than 5 years.