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How to disconnect the tracking telemetry on the 5th gen 4Runner

Discussion in '5th Gen 4Runners (2010-2024)' started by zerosignal, Jun 13, 2021.

  1. Jul 10, 2022 at 11:50 AM
    #301
    Captain Spalding

    Captain Spalding Explorer

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    I don’t know the answer to that specific question, but model year 2019 and prior 4Runners used the 3G cellular system, which is now basically defunct. Toyota will discontinue Connected Services for those vehicles on November 1st.

    In this statement by Toyota regarding the retirement of 3G they say that 4Runners from 2010 to 2019 will be affected, which would seem to indicate that some level of telematics have been present since 2010…

    https://www.toyota.com/audio-multimedia/support/3g-faq/
     
  2. Jul 10, 2022 at 11:59 AM
    #302
    stoctoni

    stoctoni New Member

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    Great link... thank you for posting. this suggests that 2010 was the first year of telematics.
     
  3. Jul 10, 2022 at 2:16 PM
    #303
    ecoterragaia

    ecoterragaia New Member

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    Leave it at home if I choose to. A vehicle is essential, a phone is not
     
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  4. Jul 11, 2022 at 11:50 AM
    #304
    Captain Spalding

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    That’s interesting. Perhaps for the week that the display was grayed out the DCM was running on a backup battery, and after the battery was exhausted the display disappeared. I wonder whether, if you temporarily replaced the fuse, the display would return.

    After I phoned in to have my DCM disconnected the meter still showed signal strength bars. Now, a few months later, the bars are all grayed and crossed out - even in my driveway where previously there were a couple of bars.
     
  5. Jul 12, 2022 at 9:20 AM
    #305
    blackcloud08

    blackcloud08 New Member

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    This is my thoughts on it as well.
     
  6. Jul 14, 2022 at 2:53 AM
    #306
    Noctilucent

    Noctilucent New Member

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    New to this site from T4R, looking to potentially uograde from a 15 to a 2022-23 4R, however I value Freedom and don't like the idea of the possibility of a government or hackers turn off my engine or hit the breaks while I'm driving. Interested in removing this feature like many of you and rooting for a solution to this invasive and predatory hardware/software on unsuspecting buyers.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2022
    ecoterragaia and DallasTRDPro like this.
  7. Jul 14, 2022 at 8:21 AM
    #307
    blackcloud08

    blackcloud08 New Member

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    If you don't care to lose the bluetooth mic, this is the way.
     
  8. Jul 14, 2022 at 1:37 PM
    #308
    DallasTRDPro

    DallasTRDPro New Member

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    I definitely have said things in my vehicle that will lower my "Toyota score".
     
  9. Jul 14, 2022 at 2:31 PM
    #309
    ecoterragaia

    ecoterragaia New Member

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    So far, the only "convenient" way to do it is removing the fuse, but you lose Bluetooth microphone capability. For me that's no biggy, but for others it's not ideal.
     
  10. Jul 14, 2022 at 4:11 PM
    #310
    08TXRunner

    08TXRunner New Member

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    If we rewind many pages, there's recommendations to simply get the Toyota app and disable everything. It works. Info center shows no comms, overhead LED is red (no comms) at all times. Why not do that?
     
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  11. Jul 14, 2022 at 4:54 PM
    #311
    blackcloud08

    blackcloud08 New Member

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    Best example I have is, "Even when your phone with a factory operating system is asleep, it's still very busy."
     
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  12. Jul 14, 2022 at 11:11 PM
    #312
    McSpazatron

    McSpazatron New Member

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    yup!
     
  13. Jul 15, 2022 at 2:45 PM
    #313
    ecoterragaia

    ecoterragaia New Member

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    You can, but you're opting out of services, which doesn't have much relation to data collection by manufacturers for sale to third parties.

    I thought this was a pretty good article explaining how manufacturers can (and do) capitalize on vehicle data. For me, it's kind of a kick in the teeth to become a continuous cash cow for a company, without my permission, after already paying for all of the hardware a vehicle comes with.

    https://www.motorfinanceonline.com/...ata-a-key-opportunity-for-auto-manufacturers/
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2022
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  14. Jul 15, 2022 at 3:14 PM
    #314
    08TXRunner

    08TXRunner New Member

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    Help me out here man. If you completely disconnect everything via the app, what services am I opting out of? Nothing that I'm aware of, but I'd like to know if I'm missing something. And if disconnected via the app, what data collection by the manufacturer continues?
     
    ecoterragaia likes this.
  15. Jul 15, 2022 at 3:20 PM
    #315
    ElectroBoy

    ElectroBoy Ad astra

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    Good article. Right now, at least for 4Runners, you can disable the real-time tracking and data collecting. But in future vehicles it may not be so easy and it may cripple many desirable features. But the bulk of car buying consumers are ignorant of what’s being collected or they don’t care as long as they have cool features. There’s money to be made, so this trend will accelerate.
    Enjoy your old tech mostly private 4Runner while you can.
     
    2Toys likes this.
  16. Jul 15, 2022 at 3:28 PM
    #316
    ecoterragaia

    ecoterragaia New Member

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    What info does your TV collect? Your connected thermostat, light bulbs, security cameras, cell phone, fridge, gaming system, echo/cortana/siri/Amazon assistant, irrigation system, etc.? I don't know because there arent any universal rules to disclose that info. That's kinda the problem. The EU is cracking down on this issue, but the US seems to be a little behind.
     
  17. Jul 15, 2022 at 4:03 PM
    #317
    08TXRunner

    08TXRunner New Member

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    I appreciate your response, but that doesn't answer the question - it poses more questions. None of which I have the answer to. The only thing I know is that disconnecting via the app appears to show the same "disconnected" signals as pulling the antennas - no signal on the head unit, overhead LED is red which means no signal. If you have something that shows different, I'd like to see it.
     
  18. Jul 15, 2022 at 5:13 PM
    #318
    wsu_runner

    wsu_runner Just lurking...

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    I was trying to think of a good analogy here. Best I can come up with is a cable modem. If you don't pay for service, you don't get Internet access and your cable modem probably has a red or blinking green light to let you know....but all the other lights are on, also - the RX, TX, etc. Apps ride on top of connections which ride on top of logical and physical transport layers. Disabling all services via the Toyota app may cause the DCM icon to gray out but there's no way to know what that really means - it could just be the DCM app on the 4Runner itself while the connections, logical, and physical layers remain intact.

    Putting it another way - the red LED could exactly mean that there is no connectivity or response from the Toyota mother ship, or it could exactly mean that the SOS services are disabled based on the response from the mother ship (which implicitly means it is always connected and the mother ship is telling it the services are deactivated)

    I'm not trying to opine one way or the other on the issue at hand, just sharing perspective on the connectivity aspect based on some experience in application development and computer-based technology. For some really dry reading, search on the OSI model and you'll find a little more about the layers I mentioned and how they relate to this scenario.
     
  19. Jul 15, 2022 at 5:31 PM
    #319
    McSpazatron

    McSpazatron New Member

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    I dont think toyota is offering any compelling services through their connected app. Maybe the “on-star” type emergency system through the SOS button. I think the connected app is also needed for remote start, if not already, then soon. Also, wifi needs a connection IRC.

    other than that, I really didnt see anything remotely useful or interesting.

    As far as what data collection continues…there are some good responses already.

    But even if we knew what is collected, and with whom it’s shared, something tells me our use of our vehicle is an acceptance of the “user agreement”. Which probably states somewhere that they have the right to change the agreement at any time without notice. Like they all do. Bastards lol
     
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  20. Jul 15, 2022 at 5:35 PM
    #320
    Captain Spalding

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    Yes. A physical air gap is always the best assurance of privacy. In this case the air gap is achieved by pulling the DCM fuse and unplugging the antennas from the DCM. Opting out via the app or a phone call relies on trusting Toyota to keep their word that they will no longer collect or distribute our personal data. It doesn’t prevent Toyota from unilaterally reinstating those services if mandated by regulation or court order.

    It’s interesting that when I called to have my DCM disconnected I was warned that if I changed my mind and wanted those services reconnected I would have to take my truck to the dealer to have the DCM “re-flashed”. Whether or not that is true I don’t know…
     
  21. Jul 15, 2022 at 7:10 PM
    #321
    ecoterragaia

    ecoterragaia New Member

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    My DCM fuse has been unplugged since December '21 and I don't have any SOS light, red or green, and no signal via the DCM. I started by unplugging the antenna cables, but I would see it catch a signal when close to a cell tower, and the app would update with mileage and tire pressure. Unplugging the DCM fuse stopped that, and I haven't had any issues since. App stopped updating right away, and has since been deleted from my phone (was using it to test the effectiveness of data transfer).

    Just took a couple of photos...

    IMG_20220715_214827.jpg

    IMG_20220715_215058.jpg
     
  22. Jul 15, 2022 at 8:11 PM
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    ElectroBoy

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    It is conceivable that when you opt out the mothership sends a message to the receiver to “go deaf” and turn off its communication channel. Probably writing to a flash memory address to power that circuit off. Then to turn it back on a dealer would need to physically plug in to the port and write the “turn on comms” command to that one address location.
     
  23. Jul 16, 2022 at 9:33 AM
    #323
    Captain Spalding

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    As I said elsewhere in this behemoth thread, the behavior of the DCM display has changed since I first had it disconnected by Toyota. Pressing the SOS button gave a canned message to call Toyota Safety Connect to have service reinstated. The DCM signal strength bars were still apparent, and while sitting in my driveway there were always a couple of bars. Now, after several weeks have passed, the display is different. In my driveway the DCM meter now shows greyed bars crossed out. In fact that’s what the meter shows all the time. This would lend credence to the theory of the mother ship sending a “go deaf” command.
     

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