1. Welcome to 4Runners.com!

    You are currently viewing as a guest! To get full-access, you need to register for a FREE account.

    As a registered member, you’ll be able to:
    • Participate in all 4Runner discussion topics
    • Transfer over your build thread from a different forum to this one
    • Communicate privately with other 4Runner owners from around the world
    • Post your own photos in our Members Gallery
    • Access all special features of the site

Feds Mandate Automated Emergency Braking by 2029

Discussion in 'General 4Runner Talk' started by Sin4R, May 3, 2024.

  1. May 3, 2024 at 11:16 AM
    #1
    Sin4R

    Sin4R [OP] New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2024
    Member:
    #37843
    Messages:
    232
    Vehicle:
    2024 Grey Limited
  2. May 3, 2024 at 11:30 AM
    #2
    Lc200

    Lc200 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2023
    Member:
    #33430
    Messages:
    542
    Gender:
    Male
    Vehicle:
    Pre Facelift SR5P
    At Least the system will step in and slow/stop the vehicle when imbecile drivers are incapable of doing it.

    And that is a very regressive approach about things breaking even before they are launched. It's not a new technology. Audi show cassed it on their A8 a decade ago and every luxury barge has it today. It probably needs refinement and mass implementation.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2024
    Noodles likes this.
  3. May 3, 2024 at 11:32 AM
    #3
    Sin4R

    Sin4R [OP] New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2024
    Member:
    #37843
    Messages:
    232
    Vehicle:
    2024 Grey Limited
    It will also sometime slow/stop for no reason, creating brake-check like situation.

    It will also get some people to drive even more dangerously, thinking the car will bail them out.
     
  4. May 3, 2024 at 11:40 AM
    #4
    Lc200

    Lc200 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2023
    Member:
    #33430
    Messages:
    542
    Gender:
    Male
    Vehicle:
    Pre Facelift SR5P
    Arn't the morons that drive Tesla already doing that.
     
    2Toys likes this.
  5. May 3, 2024 at 2:50 PM
    #5
    icebear

    icebear Recovering Kia Owner

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2023
    Member:
    #36091
    Messages:
    541
    Vehicle:
    2021 Toyota 4Runner SR5
  6. May 14, 2024 at 8:21 AM
    #6
    jharkin

    jharkin New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2022
    Member:
    #29803
    Messages:
    489
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Jeremy
    Boston suburbs
    Vehicle:
    2023 Black Pro
    +1. I dont have to run out and get it myself, but seeing the stupid **%&$* people do on hte roads these days I want the guy tailgating me at 80 on the freeway to have it.

    By the way, its already on the OPs truck, along with every 5th gen since they added TSS2.0 in 2020.
     
  7. May 14, 2024 at 9:14 AM
    #7
    Lc200

    Lc200 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2023
    Member:
    #33430
    Messages:
    542
    Gender:
    Male
    Vehicle:
    Pre Facelift SR5P
    The 2020+ 4runner has automatic braking? It literally comes to a halt in sudden situations?
     
  8. May 14, 2024 at 9:29 AM
    #8
    icebear

    icebear Recovering Kia Owner

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2023
    Member:
    #36091
    Messages:
    541
    Vehicle:
    2021 Toyota 4Runner SR5
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbnoFbb8G8Q

    Yes, preceded by audio and visual cues. Sensitivity is adjustable but unlike the Lane Departure Alert I believe it defaults to on at each start.

    But whether it’ll stop or just reduce the severity of the collision is probably situation dependent.
     
  9. May 14, 2024 at 9:32 AM
    #9
    jharkin

    jharkin New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2022
    Member:
    #29803
    Messages:
    489
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Jeremy
    Boston suburbs
    Vehicle:
    2023 Black Pro
    Yes. Page 239 of your owners manual. This has also been discussed to death on the previous thread on this topic: https://www.4runners.com/threads/us-requires-new-cars-have-emergency-braking-systems-by-2029.38289/


    I haven't ever got to the point where it stopped for me but I have had the orange "BRAKE BRAKE!" warning come up on my dash when somebody in front of me panic stopped without warning. When my foot hit the pedal you could feel that the booster had pre-pressurized to assist...

    pcs.png
     
    Lc200[QUOTED] likes this.
  10. May 14, 2024 at 9:34 AM
    #10
    Lc200

    Lc200 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2023
    Member:
    #33430
    Messages:
    542
    Gender:
    Male
    Vehicle:
    Pre Facelift SR5P
    I was unaware that newer Toyotas came with a PCS. Very interesting!
    Have you experienced it working in your daily driving and is the system efficient enough to be trust worthy? Like have you purposefully not applied brakes when required to do so, inorder for the system to completely take over?
     
  11. May 14, 2024 at 9:52 AM
    #11
    icebear

    icebear Recovering Kia Owner

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2023
    Member:
    #36091
    Messages:
    541
    Vehicle:
    2021 Toyota 4Runner SR5
    The system can’t/shouldn’t be intentionally used. (one can try though)

    By the time the system steps in, you would have had to ignore audiovisual cues and by the time it intervenes it will be harsh braking and hardly pleasant. Whether it will prevent a collision is something else too.

    The only time I would be comfortable letting the system act without my intervention by choice is if I was in a closed course driving towards a soft obstacle like what they use in testing.

    However personally, the times I have had an alert (Scenario 1) were understandable and I have had one Scenario 2 (brakes primed but waiting for me) so far in my ownership which was appreciated.
     
  12. May 14, 2024 at 10:00 AM
    #12
    MI-FL off roader

    MI-FL off roader T4R Hobby/Addict

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2015
    Member:
    #878
    Messages:
    1,223
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Brett
    Merritt Island, FL
    Vehicle:
    03' SR5 Sport - 12' Limited
    Too many mods and too much money
    I would much rather have a system that VOTED on laws, not just Mandate at the behest of one admin or anothèr.
     
    2Toys and Trident904 like this.
  13. May 14, 2024 at 10:13 AM
    #13
    jharkin

    jharkin New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2022
    Member:
    #29803
    Messages:
    489
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Jeremy
    Boston suburbs
    Vehicle:
    2023 Black Pro
    +1, the 2 times it warned me I slammed on the brakes with seconds to spare... I wouldnt want to wait and see what happened.

    We do vote on laws. These are regulatory agency rules, not laws. We (and/or people before us) voted for sections of the constitution that gave the gov power to establish such agencies and voted for the lawmakers who passed legislation defining what they could regulate.

    If direct democracy is what your looking for, other than on certain very local levels (like the open town meeting system in Vermont) that hasn't really existed since ancient Athens.

    Any further discussion will likely earn somebody an infraction so best let it go.....
     
    Daddykool and icebear[QUOTED] like this.
  14. May 14, 2024 at 10:43 AM
    #14
    RkyMtnMan

    RkyMtnMan New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2023
    Member:
    #31104
    Messages:
    58
    Gender:
    Male
    Vehicle:
    '22 ORP LR
    If this prevents a lot of rear end collisions caused by distracted drivers do you think we can get some insurance savings? lol
     
  15. May 14, 2024 at 10:45 AM
    #15
    MI-FL off roader

    MI-FL off roader T4R Hobby/Addict

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2015
    Member:
    #878
    Messages:
    1,223
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Brett
    Merritt Island, FL
    Vehicle:
    03' SR5 Sport - 12' Limited
    Too many mods and too much money
    Correct, and certain states have voted on and passed bills to limit mandates. The power should be held within the states and local jurisdictions. Not politics, just discussing what laws affect me and what I drive, and whether or not they were voted on at all, not what is forced upon me by any one admins agency.
    Have a nice day!
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2024
    Trident904 likes this.
  16. May 14, 2024 at 1:23 PM
    #16
    Trident904

    Trident904 That Guy

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2019
    Member:
    #9589
    Messages:
    552
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Brian
    Treasure Coast, FL
    Vehicle:
    22 TRD Offroad Premium on 35’s
    King 2.5 with resis, C4 Hybrid Front, TC Uppers, Victory Rack, Smitty 12k winch, 17x9 -38 SCS F5’s with 295/70 Ridge Graps
    All this tech being put in these vehicles are unnecessary distractions and just something else to have to get fixed.
     
    Daddykool and Sin4R[OP] like this.
  17. May 14, 2024 at 1:32 PM
    #17
    Lc200

    Lc200 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2023
    Member:
    #33430
    Messages:
    542
    Gender:
    Male
    Vehicle:
    Pre Facelift SR5P
    Did you have the same opinion when ABS or other stability aids like ESP or BA were introduced to passenger cars decades ago?
    How is a system that detects an urgent situation and then first alerts driver and if no input from the driver is received , proceeds to make the necessary changes an unnecessary distraction?
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2024
    icebear likes this.
  18. May 14, 2024 at 1:57 PM
    #18
    Trident904

    Trident904 That Guy

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2019
    Member:
    #9589
    Messages:
    552
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Brian
    Treasure Coast, FL
    Vehicle:
    22 TRD Offroad Premium on 35’s
    King 2.5 with resis, C4 Hybrid Front, TC Uppers, Victory Rack, Smitty 12k winch, 17x9 -38 SCS F5’s with 295/70 Ridge Graps
    ABS was in most vehicles when I began driving in the early 90’s, but I have driven regularly and know how to drive a vehicle without anti-lock brakes and do it safely.

    I believe that all the driving nannies in modern vehicles are direct compensation for the generation of people who grew up with screens in their faces and lack the basic ability to process the world around them in real time. Not once in my 35 years as a licensed driver have I rear ended someone, side swiped someone, hit a pedestrian, or backed in to anyone or anything. It’s not hard when you pay attention. I was taught to not hang out in people’s blind spots, don’t hang with the pack of cars on the highway, and maintain a safe distance. It works!
    I learned how to use my mirrors and maintain a safety bubble and to always have an out when driving.

    The infotainment systems are distractions to younger new drivers and to many elderly drivers. There have been numerous accidents where a driver has been busy messing with some bit of tech in their car which caused them to be heads down and not pay attention to the road. Just recently, we had an elderly woman hit a road construction worker because the LDA in her brand new Mercedes steered her through the cones into the work zone because the car didn’t like that she was trying to merge with the lane shift.

    Automation causes complacency due to implied dependency on the automation. Then there’s problem with many of the elderly lacking understanding of what the vehicle is trying to do or tell them which causes confusion and a loss of situational awareness.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2024
    2Toys, Daddykool and MI-FL off roader like this.
  19. May 14, 2024 at 2:58 PM
    #19
    Sin4R

    Sin4R [OP] New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2024
    Member:
    #37843
    Messages:
    232
    Vehicle:
    2024 Grey Limited
    There is a huge difference between a door lock to keep uninvited people out and TSA full body scanner machine. It is just like that.
     
    MI-FL off roader and Trident904 like this.
  20. May 14, 2024 at 3:15 PM
    #20
    Trident904

    Trident904 That Guy

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2019
    Member:
    #9589
    Messages:
    552
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Brian
    Treasure Coast, FL
    Vehicle:
    22 TRD Offroad Premium on 35’s
    King 2.5 with resis, C4 Hybrid Front, TC Uppers, Victory Rack, Smitty 12k winch, 17x9 -38 SCS F5’s with 295/70 Ridge Graps
    Great reference.
     
  21. May 15, 2024 at 5:59 AM
    #21
    jharkin

    jharkin New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2022
    Member:
    #29803
    Messages:
    489
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Jeremy
    Boston suburbs
    Vehicle:
    2023 Black Pro
    I got my drivers license in 1992... so I am probably the same age as you.

    I didnt own a car with ABS and airbags until 2003. I didnt own a car with drive by wire or traction /stability control until 2014. Would I go back to cars before that as DDs? Hell no. Airbags saved my sisters life when a car crossed the median and hit her head on. ABS has probably saved my bacon more than once in the winter. stability control stopped me from putting the truck in the ditch on ice more than once.

    Before that first ABS car I had an old doge with un-ventilated solid rotor front disks and rear drums. I lost the brakes to fade/boiling fluid going down a mountain downhill once, lucky I didn't die (because it was a manual and I knew how to down shift and work the ebrake). Do I want to go back to that as a daily, even though I could handle it? Hell no.

    I also got the chance to drive a 55 Chevy that my buddies Dad had restored when I was in high school. 4 wheel unpowered drum brakes. They warned me but still at the first stop I coasted right though and intersection in spite of putting my foot to the floor. Luckily nobody crossing the other way so no harm. Would I want to go back to that as a daily? Again, hell no.

    As great as you think you behind the wheel, the genie is out of the bottle. Most of the other yahoos around you are morons and you and I cant control what they are doing no matter how many distracted driving laws you vote for. If these systems stop one of them from killing me that's a net positive.
     
    icebear and Lc200 like this.
  22. May 15, 2024 at 6:10 AM
    #22
    Lc200

    Lc200 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2023
    Member:
    #33430
    Messages:
    542
    Gender:
    Male
    Vehicle:
    Pre Facelift SR5P
    Yes there is. And both of those systems are appropriate in their respective environments,
    and are mutually exclusive.
    Out on the roads, I am happy to have any supplemental safety technology that protects me from distracted drivers because they were ejits and did not brake in time because they were looking at their phone or were slow to even respond to changed situation or just dint care.
    It is important to idiot proof the vehicle that is driven in public and this is just another step in that direction.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2024
    jharkin likes this.
  23. May 15, 2024 at 6:16 AM
    #23
    Charlievee

    Charlievee New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2018
    Member:
    #8149
    Messages:
    1,300
    All the more reason to build, not buy.
     
  24. May 15, 2024 at 7:04 AM
    #24
    Trident904

    Trident904 That Guy

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2019
    Member:
    #9589
    Messages:
    552
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Brian
    Treasure Coast, FL
    Vehicle:
    22 TRD Offroad Premium on 35’s
    King 2.5 with resis, C4 Hybrid Front, TC Uppers, Victory Rack, Smitty 12k winch, 17x9 -38 SCS F5’s with 295/70 Ridge Graps
    I get it, I wouldn’t want to DD a non ABS car either, but you and I both grew up in a time where paying attention wasn’t a problem. My point with all this tech going into these vehicles is that is coddling drivers and relaxing the need to pay attention because…

    AUTOMATION CAUSES COMPLACENCY!

    I am a great driver and my record proves as such. As stated above, the amount of drivers on the road that don’t maintain their safety bubble and leave themselves with a way out is excessive. 30 years ago, people didn’t hang out in another driver’s blind spot, they didn’t drive in wadded up packs like they do now, and a rear end collision on the highway wasn’t really a thing. Now, all that shit is common because people rely on nannies instead of common sense.
     
    Han4Run likes this.
  25. May 15, 2024 at 7:10 AM
    #25
    Daddykool

    Daddykool Photography enthusiast

    Joined:
    May 5, 2021
    Member:
    #21295
    Messages:
    1,544
    Gender:
    Male
    I think the beef that many on here have regarding tech is the mandating of it once someone (some agency) determines it to be a 'good idea'. It seems that once things are invented and developed/proven, they often proceed to 'mandated'. Then, when someone voices opposition to the mandate, the argument becomes, "Why don't you want this or that new tech? You don't complain about the old tech that was introduced years ago." when the argument isn't about the tech itself. The argument I see on here most often revolves around the mandating of the tech, and not the availability of it.
     
    Lc200[QUOTED] likes this.
  26. May 15, 2024 at 7:20 AM
    #26
    Trident904

    Trident904 That Guy

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2019
    Member:
    #9589
    Messages:
    552
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Brian
    Treasure Coast, FL
    Vehicle:
    22 TRD Offroad Premium on 35’s
    King 2.5 with resis, C4 Hybrid Front, TC Uppers, Victory Rack, Smitty 12k winch, 17x9 -38 SCS F5’s with 295/70 Ridge Graps
    This is exactly it! The mandates are compensating for the last 20 years of the dumbing down of society and a lot of the people creating this tech are products of the last 20 years.
     
    Daddykool[QUOTED] likes this.
  27. May 15, 2024 at 7:42 AM
    #27
    icebear

    icebear Recovering Kia Owner

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2023
    Member:
    #36091
    Messages:
    541
    Vehicle:
    2021 Toyota 4Runner SR5
    The automation here doesn’t cause complacency like “Autopilot” would in that it is harsh braking and would kick in later than any reasonable driver would be comfortable allowing. It is a separate feature from that stop/go cruise some cars have.

    I’m glad folks are fine drivers in here, but we share the road with so many kinds of people. Elderly who lack alternative transportation options, kids who got their license in 2020 (I just explained high beams to my SO’s cousins), phones, someone who’s had a horrible night, those who love driving and those who despise it. To err is human after all.

    Anyone who feels they can depend on the feature is going to be a poor decision maker anyway.
     
  28. May 15, 2024 at 7:48 AM
    #28
    Lc200

    Lc200 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2023
    Member:
    #33430
    Messages:
    542
    Gender:
    Male
    Vehicle:
    Pre Facelift SR5P
    You are absolutely correct.
    The thing is, there is a huge investment involved in development of new tech, automotive or otherwise. Once that initial outlay is done, the developer/company would like to earn a return. The only way they can do it is incorporate it in every new vehicle they sell and have the statute back them on it.
    If the law gives the end buyer an option to opt out of a tech/feature and bulk of the buyers opt out of it, the company fails to recover the investment that was spent to develop that tech. That is why lobbying is done to make a new tech mandated.
    Of course not all tech is evil and some actually benefit the end user. But then most are also guided by vested intertests.
     
  29. May 15, 2024 at 7:49 AM
    #29
    Trident904

    Trident904 That Guy

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2019
    Member:
    #9589
    Messages:
    552
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Brian
    Treasure Coast, FL
    Vehicle:
    22 TRD Offroad Premium on 35’s
    King 2.5 with resis, C4 Hybrid Front, TC Uppers, Victory Rack, Smitty 12k winch, 17x9 -38 SCS F5’s with 295/70 Ridge Graps
    It absolutely does cause complacency. Radar cruise control is the perfect example! Look at the number of highway rear end collisions that have occurred because people are depending on the system to not let them hit the car in front of them. Any type of automation is going to create a sense of “one less thing I have to do.”

    You are 100% correct in your final statement about decision making. However, look at the non-electronic assisted decision making capabilities of people over the past 20 years, it gets worse every year.
     
  30. May 16, 2024 at 3:13 AM
    #30
    jharkin

    jharkin New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2022
    Member:
    #29803
    Messages:
    489
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Jeremy
    Boston suburbs
    Vehicle:
    2023 Black Pro
    I get it. You and I are pretty alike in driving habits… I feel like I’m the only person I know who still remembers and practices the “1 car length per 10mph” and I tap the brakes to let somebody go by when they hang out in my blind spot. Heck I scream mentally every time I pass a pedestrian walking on the right with their back to traffic (which seems to be 9 out of 10 these day).

    But nobody else gets it. My wife thinks I’m a weird driver and gets upset when I say I need quiet to concentrate in a messy merge situation.

    So I again reiterate that my point is not that I think complacency is OK, it’s that the complacency is happening whether we like it or not. I just now looked it up and there where 190million cars registered in 1992, that has increased to 283million in 2022. 50% more people on the road and 80% of them where morons even before they stuffed a phone in their face. Unfortunately we live in a world that we need this shit to protect ourselves from the idiots.
     

Products Discussed in

To Top