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End of the gas engine?

Discussion in '5th Gen 4Runners (2010-2024)' started by YetiMtnBkr, May 22, 2023.

  1. May 24, 2023 at 10:55 AM
    #121
    Captain Spalding

    Captain Spalding . . .

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    O. M. G. So we’ve got two competing automotive technologies: electric and hydrogen. The electric throws off microwaves and the hydrogen produces moisture. We will literally be scalded by steam as we drive down the highway!

    My eldest daughter is somewhat of a fanatic. I have told her that I share her concern about the environment but disagree on the immediacy required to solve the problem. I show her news clippings from back when I was her age, warning of the next ice age and the impending glacial ice sheet that will cover North America. Articles by the same scientific organizations which wring their hands with such concern now. I’ve agreed that change should happen, but that the process should be one of evolution, not revolution. But her zeal is not to be contained and we have the ongoing debate about whether humans are stewards or parasites. We argue about shrinking our eco footprints vs shrinking the number of footprints. And ultimately, feeling battered, I don my favorite armor. Sarcasm. I described to her my 200 year plan. In 200 years, I told her, I’ll be dead. Everyone I ever loved will be dead. And everyone they ever loved will be dead. I only need the world to last 200 more years. What vested interest do I have in the perpetuation of humanity beyond that? She says she subscribes to the humans-are-parasites-that-exist-outside-of-and-at-odds-with nature perspective. Fine. Surely then it must actually be preferable that we render the planet uninhabitable for humans, so that we the parasites can be exterminated at last and nature can continue on its merry way without us, recovering as it has before from the global ecological disasters of the past. She hates the flawlessness of the logic.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2023
  2. May 24, 2023 at 11:04 AM
    #122
    broken-giver

    broken-giver BFD

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    I read somewhere that scientists had a messaging problem when it came to making everyone aware of climate change. Either they could be the "end of the world" type, asking people to act now else in 20 years earth will be on fire, or they could say exactly what they think would happen, and at what time frame it would happen. I guess the former took over messaging :)

    global warming is real. It is caused by humans. But I think the reality of impact is somewhere in the middle -- between "in 50 years entire eastern seaboard will be under water" and " its just cyclically warm, in grand scheme of things".

    I do not subscribe to your "200 years" philosophy but I can not argue with it :)
     
  3. May 24, 2023 at 11:09 AM
    #123
    mainerunr

    mainerunr New Member

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    so, do you own a 4runner or are you planning on buying one?
     
  4. May 24, 2023 at 11:17 AM
    #124
    broken-giver

    broken-giver BFD

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    Not sure I follow..?
     
  5. May 24, 2023 at 11:27 AM
    #125
    Captain Spalding

    Captain Spalding . . .

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    He’s pointing out the hypocrisy of believing that global warming is a problem, and man made, vs owning a vehicle like the 4Runner that is a gross polluter.
    I’ll say they did.
     
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  6. May 24, 2023 at 11:49 AM
    #126
    McSpazatron

    McSpazatron New Member

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    Your pain…I feel it lol:laugh:

    With regard to youngins, I think I’m finally starting to realize that allowing time for their words to echo and bounce around in their head, without immediate comment, is more helpful than me offering a different perspective, full of all my noble wisdom and logic as a learned adult. Why are kids so hard? lol.

    The point about allowing climate change to let earth dispense with it’s human infestation…yeah, no way I would let that opportunity pass. Gold! Haha
     
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  7. May 24, 2023 at 11:52 AM
    #127
    Captain Spalding

    Captain Spalding . . .

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    Yeah. Keeping one’s moth shut may be the hardest thing we are called upon to do as parents.
     
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  8. May 24, 2023 at 4:43 PM
    #128
    ReRunner

    ReRunner Fred Berry Enthusiast

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    Is there a better term for people that are forcing their personal beliefs on others in extreme and detrimental ways? Sounds like cult behavior. Its too bad you've picked a single "offensive label" to pick up on though. Maybe you should look into why words and not context bother you.

    So, for your edification, let me help you understand. I live on the beach. My entire family and extended family's livelihoods depend directly on the climate. There are no office workers or from home workers I'm related to. From farmers, to fisheries, to offshore work, and food supply logistics we're all keeping track. One part of my family has a farm with daily temp/wind/rainfall amounts recorded for over 100 years with multiple data points spread over 10000 acres across 3 states. We are very keenly aware of the climate. I have been tracking hurricanes & typhoons for over 30 years. I read studies on weather all the time. My family's entire livelihood depends on accurate weather forecasting. Get it? We are paying attention. We don't see these changes. We don't believe in the opposite of what reality tells us. And, my family is like 1000s of others. ya know, "deniers"

    This is why it gets unbelievably frustrating to constantly hear people talk about this impending doom of global warming with religious ferocity. As if they know this. They don't. And, anyone that says global warming or climate change or whatever other buzzword their marketing department uses to "sell" the idea is a fact is lying. Because it is not a fact. As others have pointed out numerous times; We simply do not have enough long term, accurate climate study. Predications made based on global warming models have overwhelmingly not come to pass. The vast majority of publicity(they call them studies) is paid for by vested interests that profit from people reacting negatively to that news(fear mongering for profit.) EVs are the perfect example. Except for end user emissions, EVs cause an extreme amount of more pollution than gas cars. Sure, that might be changing in the years to come, but the lie that EVs are somehow good for the planet has been used to dupe the public. Which I find disgusting.

    Could humans be having a long term effect? Yes, of course. I've ceded that point numerous times. But, until it is PROVEN, I am unwilling to go along with a "just in case" wager. Especially given that the plans "leaders" want to implement don't do much of anything to actually improve the climate by their own "science." The polices do ALL have a central tenant though, Authoritarianism. Why is that? Why do they point the finger at the individual? Aren't they the "leaders?" Why aren't they sacrificing for the cause? Yeah, you figure it out.

    Some narrow-minded peeps might think I'm against EVs. Not at all. I am, totally against the slavery & pollution caused by EVs, but do not have any sort of problem with the concept itself. I just have zero interest in driving, what seems to me, a scaled up RC car. I stopped playing with those by age 10. The few electric cars and hybrids Ive been in all have the same problem. Boring and stale, with all the features I specifically do not want in a car. The Tesla truck is the only exception to this. Only because it is just so over the top. I love it.

    @FN2187
    Its very common for rural folks to use golf carts and various electric side by sides for getting around the countryside. The method of power has less to do than with ease of use. Still don't understand how EV benefits city folk. Thankfully I have never lived in city. I'm very fortunate!

    @Captain Spalding
    I'm of similar mind as your daughter. Only my thought is that we are chimps that have chromosomal damage. This is why we cant ever seem to reach equilibrium with our environs. Like a virus, we consume until resources are gone. Self defeating. Its amazing we are still around. If only we could have kept that retarded fish frog from having butt sects with that monkey.
     
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  9. May 24, 2023 at 5:07 PM
    #129
    Captain Spalding

    Captain Spalding . . .

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    Your first 4 paragraphs above would seem to contradict that. Perhaps I expressed myself poorly (I often do.) Or maybe my reading comprehension is poor. Also a possibility. But whatever the source of our misunderstanding, let us endeavor to keep things on a friendly basis.
     
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  10. May 24, 2023 at 5:39 PM
    #130
    ReRunner

    ReRunner Fred Berry Enthusiast

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    @Captain Spalding

    The similarity is that we both view humanity as an unsustainable species. Much like a virus. I don't take it to those extremes of belief though. Mine is just based on observation of culture & fascination with the genetic divergence we have with chimps. Im not in favor of any sort of "control" or eugenics plan. Nor do I want anything more from humanity than to stop needless suffering. Which is admittedly far too much to ask, apparently.

    Really though I was just trying wedge in a South Park quote. Success!
     
  11. May 24, 2023 at 5:45 PM
    #131
    Captain Spalding

    Captain Spalding . . .

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    You might be on to something there. It might explain my occasional urge to throw poop.
     
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  12. May 24, 2023 at 5:59 PM
    #132
    McSpazatron

    McSpazatron New Member

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  13. May 24, 2023 at 7:43 PM
    #133
    FN2187

    FN2187 Stormtrooper

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    Only occasionally? I feel like going full chimpoo all the time!
     
  14. May 25, 2023 at 3:44 AM
    #134
    Spare Parts

    Spare Parts New Member

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    I picked up on the “label” because of just that, it’s a label we use to devalue what the other perspective says. I also don’t like the forced on you mentality, in fact I’ve pushed against the politicalness of this issue for as long as I can remember. I am a firm believer in let others lice, just as long as there actions don’t impede on others. And as I stated previously, I find it impossible to think we have no effect on this planet, you even talk about using all the resources. So, of the planet is always trying to balance itself, wouldn’t the use of the resources be causing the planet to alter its patterns, or at least some cycle would be changed? You mention farming, I have read that tilling the soil can release carbon into the air, again how can we think that doing things like this don’t alter the natural cycles of the planet? I am not a scientist, shit I’d even say I’m pretty dumb in comparison to some, but I do tend to look at all sides and make the best choice I can.

    EVs are great for short run around town/city, but Hybrids, I don’t think are all that great for stop and go crap, they are great for highway and country roads.

    with all this being said, I don’t think we will ever know the truth, however next couple generations may very well find out, so shouldn’t I consider what impact I may have. And yes I own a 4Runner, and am not getting rid of it, I also own a plug in hybrid, which we love but feel bad about the ecological damage the battery production caused.
     
  15. May 25, 2023 at 3:55 AM
    #135
    Thatbassguy

    Thatbassguy New member? Really??

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    Don't hybrids tend to get better fuel economy in the city?

    I personally think plug in hybrids are the best option for those looking to save on fuel. And, they're probably the best option for those who want great fuel economy and the ability to travel.

    I agree about EV's. I would use one for commuting around town and running errands. I just don't see myself getting my money's worth out of one anytime soon.
     
  16. May 25, 2023 at 5:15 AM
    #136
    broken-giver

    broken-giver BFD

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    This was my sentiment as well! Sadly it was overridden because wife wanted tesla ;)
     
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  17. May 25, 2023 at 6:50 AM
    #137
    Spare Parts

    Spare Parts New Member

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    they do get better than a typical gasser, but not enough to trade off on the added cost. At Least when I did my research some time ago.

    A quick google says I am wrong, but I would have to dig in deeper to change my thinking.
     
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  18. May 25, 2023 at 8:59 AM
    #138
    FN2187

    FN2187 Stormtrooper

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    By the way, where has @Gamma Ray been at in this discussion???

    I expected him to swoop in like a fire breathing dragon, roasting everyone's opinions on EVs, cracking a butt joke (pun intended), then swiftly disappearing like a ninja in the night :)
     
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  19. May 25, 2023 at 12:15 PM
    #139
    McSpazatron

    McSpazatron New Member

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    Lol, good point. I’m surprised he hasnt taken the bait! :poking:

    I’m going to regret this post:laugh::bananadead:
     
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  20. May 25, 2023 at 12:34 PM
    #140
    ReRunner

    ReRunner Fred Berry Enthusiast

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    Exactly. I don't respect people that are mouth pieces for corrupt entities trying to exert control over & take value from people's lives. The slur is intended. If you're ok with immorality, thats on you.

    I get it. Pascal's Wager comforts you. It's a normal response to the fear of the unknown. If you can read & comprehend my previous post and still think I somehow don't care and am not invested in the future then I have truly failed at conveying my thoughts. Again, I say people are affecting the planet. It's obvious. I'm all for conservation of the natural world and would love to see clean energy(batteries are the opposite of this) and technologies that can clean up the mess at our feet. I just don't see any evidence of the global warming hypothesis, and am unwilling to support measures that won't actually fix the supposed problem. Show me something real and give us solutions that work without a smokescreen that just consolidates power & wealth upwards and I'll break my back trying to help.
     
  21. May 25, 2023 at 1:52 PM
    #141
    ElectroBoy

    ElectroBoy Ad astra

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  22. May 25, 2023 at 2:38 PM
    #142
    Gamma Ray

    Gamma Ray Be excellent to each other

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    Who cares? This never shows everything anyway.
    If I wanted you guys to worry about me commenting on this topic, I would've shoved both of my dipsticks up your asses. I'll be in the woods living my best 1/10 scale EV life with tremendously efficient motors and batteries.
     
  23. May 25, 2023 at 4:12 PM
    #143
    FN2187

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    :101010:
     
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  24. May 25, 2023 at 4:37 PM
    #144
    Captain Spalding

    Captain Spalding . . .

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    [​IMG]
     
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  25. May 25, 2023 at 6:28 PM
    #145
    FN2187

    FN2187 Stormtrooper

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    Thought of another one, because I just can't help myself. Seeing the headlines about avoiding rivers in NorCal because of record snowpack melting, according to the wiki, the US has over 84k dams. Stopping all of that cold mountain water from reaching the oceans and allowing them to either warm up in lakes before being released or just being consumed as drinking water or irrigation could potentially have an impact as well. The possibilities are almost endless. With our powers combined, we are not Capt. Planet
     
  26. May 25, 2023 at 7:43 PM
    #146
    SR5 Limited

    SR5 Limited New Member

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    I watched a show and they were using satellites to send microwaves to power solar panels. Ofcourse it’s weaponized.
     
  27. May 25, 2023 at 7:43 PM
    #147
    SR5 Limited

    SR5 Limited New Member

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    I don’t go anywhere now without my phone in airplane mode.
     
  28. May 25, 2023 at 7:51 PM
    #148
    Captain Spalding

    Captain Spalding . . .

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    Interesting. I thought water expands when it freezes.
     
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  29. May 25, 2023 at 8:27 PM
    #149
    FN2187

    FN2187 Stormtrooper

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    It does, I have plenty of cracked ceramic flower pots from last winter that proves the known science. I've seen that fact used as a counter argument to melting glaciers not having a significant impact on rising seas - guess it depends on how much of the ice is already in the sea. I think glaciers typically form on land though
     
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  30. May 25, 2023 at 10:40 PM
    #150
    ElectroBoy

    ElectroBoy Ad astra

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    Almost everything expands with increased temperature. But there are some materials that contract when heated within certain temperature ranges. Water is one of them. The density of water is greatest at 4°C (and has the least volume). As the temperature increases above 4°C it expands (it’s density decreases).

    But if the temperature is decreased from 4°C down to freezing at 0°C water actually expands (density decreases), cracking your flower pots or bursting your forgotten can of beer in the freezer.

    This phenomenon is what causes a deep pond to freeze over yet the water near the bottom remains at 4°C (40°F) allowing fish to survive.

    IMG_0307.jpg
     
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