Ecm replacement?? I’m at a loss, need help. 5th gen

This is going to be my first time posting to the forum, and my millionth time getting info from it so I want to preface this with a huge thank you to all of you guys actually posting responses. It has proven invaluable to me. As someone who is mechanically inclined in the sense I can build your house from scratch to finish, but had zero knowledge when it came to cars. I fell in love with my 4Runner and have replaced so many parts and fixed so many issues on my own I have found a love for working on it instead of being terrified.

now to the ECM…

2010 4Runner limited
270,000 miles

Remember I said I had no car knowledge… so to start this two months ago…

wobbling steering wheel when braking. Pick up new brakes and rotors.

realize calipers on front right wheel will not open. Try cleaning parts, buy new front passenger caliber and install. Try having wife help me bleed brakes, try doing it myself for about 4 days in a row. Finally get them bled to the best of my abilities…. Abs light not on, however stoppping distance increased by hundreds of feet, panic break which only happened once as I got used to pumping my brakes, wheels locked up.

just giving you 100% of the info, now on to the ecu. After doing the brakes I decided to finally try and take care of the voltage fluctuation issue I had been having by replacing the spark plugs. Go to autozone, buy the most expensive spark plugs available, go home, replace them. Notice. A ton of oil on all but 2/6 spark plugs. Quick google search says valve cover gasket. But valve cover gasket online and begin that night mare of a project. It actually went really well, except I had a temper, and didn’t realize the importance of the connectors and broke 3 of them trying to get the wiring harness off. I get the gasket online, fight with the spark plug tube seals a while, put it all back together. Still swing voltage issues but barely. I go and test my battery and it’s bad. Last winter I was short on money I bought a cheap battery for 50$ and it lasted me a year. So I bought the duralast platinum like 350$ battery this time. Still seeing a slight voltage fluctuating constantly. Go and test the alternator, they say it’s bad. I replaced this in October of 23 myself it’s still under warranty so I get a new one and install it. Voltage fluctuation seems to be gone and it’s steady now. (This is all within the month). Driving home from replacing alternator, check engine light. Comes on for a camshaft position sensor. I don’t remember which version and to make a long story short, it kept throwing codes for bank 1 bank 2 postion 1 position 2 camshaft position sensor, crankshaft position sensor, variable valve timing solenoid, all showing over advanced or retarded each time. I replaced every single sensor still going off. Realized the connectors are THAT important so I ordered three pigtails online for the broken ones, replaced them, hooked them up and double checked connections. Still throwing codes. I tested all of my old sensors with a multimeter and they were all within normal range resistance. Not knowing how true the “relearn” protocol is I’ve disconnected the battery multiple times with the new sensors for the night, hooked up in the morning and let idle for 30 minutes. Stillthrowing codes, except took three days this time. Then check engine light every 10 minutes, to the point I slowly started replacing the new sensors with the original sensors thinking maybe nothing was relearned and that was the issue. I’ve tested every fuse with a multimeter and all were fine. I’ve changed every sensor, I’ve changed my oil 3 times in the month. I checked the oil filter as I have the stupid aftermarket one everyone chastises. My oil is damn near clear, it’s hard to read on the dipstick without a good light. I’vechecked my oil control valve filters, once when I did the gasket, and once again yesterday in case stuff got kicked up from working on it. I am at a loss, and I almost hit the confirm purchase onflagship one before having a gut feeling to check out reviews and immedietly decided against trying to get one from them as I am out of money to throw at this thing now, I’m about to lose my job from missing so much work dealing with trying to fix this issue myself, and being scared to ruin my engine driving it with the way that it has been.

the main symptom now, and why the check engine light scares me so much is the rough idle, and the fact I could put the petal to the floor (without the check engine light on) and it bogs down and if I’m lucky will get it up to 45mph but my butthole is puckered so tight it waiting for my engine to start knocking or my timing chain to come apart and start whipping itself aroundunder my hood until I pull over and hang myself with it that I’ve only gone that fast once since this issue has been going on.

you guys have been so great for every other step in this process, and believe me it took me this long to post this because I just didn’t know where this would end up taking me. Any info or input will be greatly appreciated and accepted. Thanks guys!

-Evan

 

Sorry to hear of your troubles. I can't be much help personally but have a couple of suggestions. 1) Stop throwing parts at it & do some diagnostics. FSM has procedures for just about everything if you NEED or want to do this yourself. You need to find out what the problem is BEFORE you can fix it. There is a guy on here who is, based on his posts, a diagnostic Guru. I can't remember his username, but I will try to find him for you. Might take a couple of days, 2) Contact everyone you know in the Springs who owns a Toyota & see if you can find a good shop, not a dealership, & have them do the diagnostics. I had one but they went out of business. Or maybe one of them will have a TecStream & do the diagnostics for you. As far a driving it, the common wisdom is that if the CEL is not flashing, driving will not hurt it. Not sure I would take that to the bank, but whatever...... If/when I find the guy on here I mentioned I will post here. Good luck.

 

what does this even mean ? " try and take care of the voltage fluctuation issue I had been having"

edit- this dudes a troll.

 

I appreciate it greatly! I did as much research as possible, I should have looked at some flow charts before throwing so many un-returnable parts at it but I was just trying to get it back up and running as quickly as possible. You live and you learn. That being said, after all the reading I have done the ECM seems to make the most sense, although I have taken it out and opened it up and visually there’s nothing that catches my eye but I know absolutely nothing about circuit boards. Anyways, I ordered one on eBay after the flagship reviews on Reddit convinced me to cancel that order and save myself the trouble and as fate would have it the first one got lost on its way here. The second ecm is supposed to arrive sometime between Monday and Thursday, I will let you guys know if it ends up being the fix all. Any tips on dealing with the immobilizer/whatever other steps need to be taken after I get the ecu in my possession before I just plop it in would be welcomed and appreciated. Thanks all!

 

There are several threads on here about the steps needed to replace the ECU. Do a search you will find what you need. Also, since you have 5th gen, try posting in that section.

 

Sounds like your chain has jumped some teeth and your timing is off hence why both banks are going off. Bank one is the passenger side bank 2 is the driver side. It's not usual to have bank one and bank two codes unless it's all related to one thing like the chain slipping or adjusters at a place.

 

Yeah unfortunately it’s now at the point I have to agree with you. After changing my oil and filter 7 times in 2 months, switching out the camshaft/crankshaft sensors and the vvt solenoids, with cheap Amazon parts (in the middle so like 50-75$ a piece) and then reading up on that decision on google and returning them all and buying top of the line at auto zone (still not oem I know but I’m broke now) and requiring all of the connectors and pigtails, unsealing the entire wire loom to look for damage, twice, taking off my oil passages, dropping my oil pan, cleaning the oil pan filter, cleaning my fuel injectors, throttle body, replacing my alternator, getting to my crankshaft sensor, twice, getting the biggest baddest battery possible, getting a new ecm (which I never had programmed but it worked phenomenally) however popped up the same exact codes I think I’m going to buy the timing chain kit today when I get off work. Only thing that was throwing me off from really considering the timing chain even though I’m at 300,000 was that she ran like a brand new race car until I changed my valve cover gasket. Literally no issues outside of normal wear and tear components (alternator, calipers, serpentine belt etc). So I just thought it was odd that it started having all of these issues that people on google were saying was such an easy fix and part to replace but I should have known when “dirty oil” was the main cause because if there is one thing I am over zealous about it’s changing my oil. But it also didn’t start happening until a few days of driving after the gasket was replaced. I’m pretty sure I dropped some kind of debris down by the chain or wherever and it finally worked it’s way to a tooth and made it jump. However I acquired a ton of knowledge about engines, and how to work on them. I have a bidirectional scanner now which is just neat to have, and I learned the valuable lesson that throwing new parts into an engine won’t make a difference unless it’s the right part.

so here is my next question, and I will post a picture of the valve covers when I did the gasket replacement so you get an idea of the condition overall. But if I didn’t do to much damage driving it the way it was (never had any misfires, maybe 1 or 2 on a cylinder here and there and definitely not every drive) and overall, at most, I think I drove 250 miles, how much longer can I expect it to run smoothly? Obviously I need my after market shocks and control arms etc rebuilt as they have definitely gone to shit now that they have been overdue for a while now but will the engine still hold up or is there other parts that have a lifespan of around 300,000 that won’t be worth replacing when they go? I still owe like 4k on it which is why I’m trying to keep my hopes for its future realistic. Granted I will put a new engine in it before it goes to a junk yard and I acquire a new car loan but coming up with 7k is pretty unrealistic in the foreseeable future.

thanks for the help guys I will update if it in fact was the timing chain after I take the gasket covers off again tomorrow.

p.s. does anyone see anything glaring out at you in the limited photos I took with the covers off last time that were obvious signs something was about to give?

pss. I’m at work and don’t have time to proofread all of this so hopefully it makes a little bit of sense!

 

Oh I completely forgot,

so a lot of the initial issues were due to me being overly aggressive taking the connectors off in the first place, I broke three for sure and damaged two others which have since been replaced and that got rid of most of the issues. However after replacing all that was said above I have been getting a consistent p0024 code, if DTC is cleared it will come back after about 50 miles on the second drive cycle and always at 40-43 mph. For a day or two I would get a p0014 code instead of the p0024 if I moved the solenoids or camshaft sensors around, and then I would get no codes for a day or two as well after moving them around, and that lasted for about a week with minimal driving, but now I will get the p0024 code no matter what on that 2nd drive cycle around 40mph and there’s nothing left to replace or move around that isn’t brand new.

Just wanted to give a full update with 100% of the information.

 

Chain jumps for the following reasons (likelihood) - 1. tensioner fails 2. chain stretches with use past where tensioner can compensate 3. mechanical obstruction (something gets into the chain or broken guide).

Usually, in most circumstances, you can hear chain rattle at the startup and find signs of chain slap. I don't see any signs of chain slap in your pictures and you didn't mention hearing chain rattle. More so, painted chain links look good to me. I have not heard these engines having timing chain issues, I would not assume that happening here without some additional evidence.

Before you go through the hassle of redoing the chain, check each sensor you "overly aggressive taking the connectors off", especially ones that were not replaced. And by checking, verify that they send OK signal and not just inspect connectors. it is more likely the culprit is there.

I know this is ugly question with ugly implications, but could it be that you dropped something into the engine while "overly aggressive taking the connectors off"?

 

Take a look at what The Car Care Nut say about timing chains on Toyota: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyBwseqoeus

 

Going to watch this video here in about a half hour when I’m done at Home Depot, and will give a better response/ would be grateful if you’re available to answer a couple questions regarding the testing for signal S I’ve mainly done resistance testing, and have googled quite a bit but am still clueless as to how to really use my bidirectional scanner for pinpointing issues and not just seeing stuff I find interesting. I was just about to click pay now on a timing kit before I saw you’re response so if I need to get it I will but I imagine it will take me all weekend so the earlier I get it the better. I do have an uptempo clicking sound but I thought it was an injector, and from what I’ve seen on YouTube about the timing chain “rattle” you’re referring to it definitely does not do that. However it did just start making a very noticeable noise that sounds like an air “puff” which I think I have narrowed down to my throttle body opening and closing intermittently while idle in park but I’ve never heard it before. Also my AC isn’t getting cold not sure what that says but it’s always worked great. @Sin4R

 

Typically you can test sensors with regular voltmeter, but for timing based sensors like crankshaft position sensor you might need an oscilloscope. Fortunately, YT full of videos how to do it.

 

Okay that’s what i thought originally. There’s no great way to test it since they don’t activate at idle. But that being said I tried to visually inspect as much wiring as possible, and I thought about doing continuity tests between the sensor and ecm but wouldn’t I get an open circuit code instead if that was the issue? Only other thing I’ve noticed but don’t know the significance of it if any, but when activation actuators on my scanner linear bank 1&2 if I advance them my car does the wholes rough idle thing, even if by only 1 degree. But when it quick subtract 25% at a time usually nothing happens and little happens when I get to about -75%. However the live data is showing 0’s all the way down for the occ duty and I thought that was a good thing?

 

I verified that I am able to pick up the chain kit or a sprocket if that’s the issue in person at the store so I don’t have to have it shipped. Working late tonight if I have the time I will otherwise tomorrow I’m going to pull the valve covers and take some pictures if you don’t mind tapping back in in case it’s not super obvious to me

 

I think you need to start your diagnosis fresh. I re-read your original post, you mentioned oil on the spark plugs. You also mentioned getting most expensive plugs you can find.

Suggestion 1: Confirm that you got correct spark plugs for your engine. Not every spark plugs works for every engine, new expensive ones tend to be for DI engines and this isn't one.
Suggestion 2: Confirm that you no longer have oil on spark plugs.
Suggestion 3: Confirm that they are all firing.

You are assuming that what you have is a timing issue. I think it is premature to conclude that.

 

This is a train wreck.

 

I think you are correct yes. Anyways had an emergency plumbing call this weekend and got stuck at work so I just now took the bank one valve cover off. Before I move on to the 2nd figured I would post a quick video of anyone has any suggestions. Will look into spark plugs right now. These are the plugs I bought. @Sin4R

 

Also no oil on spark plugs, and the only way I have been able to assume all my cylinders are firing is that I was getting one or two misfires here and there, never more than 9 with all combined but lately it’s saying no misfires and a misfire % of 70% on live data while driving and 127% while the check engine light is on.

 

Sounds wild, But have you checked and made sure that nothing is stuck/blocking on the MAF?

 

The sensor itself? I’ve sprayed it with maf sensor cleaner a few times but that’s all

 

Let me know what you guys think, about to find all my timing marks now

 

Here’s the video sorry

 

Jesus here now hopefully https://share.icloud.com/photos/076EWA9U-_wyLzTEnRZmxuvrg

 

Here’s some pics on the timing. Doing the best I can.

 

Good luck with the timing chain work. Keep us posted.

 

I haven’t messed with the timing chain yet

 

I thought it looked right, unless it doesn’t. I just saw the missing figure 8 ring seal and thought that could be the entire issue?

 

I don't see anything in the pictures that would indicate chain issues, but then again the only way to know for sure is to take it off and measure (or compare) to the new one. Chain stretch is possible, but not likely.

Again, 1GR-FE engines are not prone to chain issues, there are examples of ultra-high mileage engines with the original chain. My guess your issues are not caused by skipped timing chain. My guess that attempting timing chain job, you are more likely to cause additional issues. I encourage you to continue working on your car, but get something simpler to practice more complicated jobs. I highly recommend getting old beater Miata or Civic and do such jobs there first. Plus, with the price of new cars, there is demand for old running cars, so you can make some side money buying and fixing them. Like this guy: https://www.youtube.com/@TheQuestionableGarage

 

When it comes to spark plugs more expensive is not always better. Moving forward, I recommend you stick to OEM Spark Plugs unless you are building race engine or trying to supercharge your 4Runner.

Similarly, for sensors for Toyota, buy OEM. Too many non-OEM parts come from China, where getting a new part no longer means it would work out of the box. With OEM sensors you can assume "I replaced it, I know it is good", with aftermarket you cannot.

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I recommend your next step is to check the overall engine health - do compression and leak down test. If that does not uncover issues, only then continue looking elsewhere.

 

Yeah I agree especially with the timing chain (thankfully) non issue. Once I got my covers off again and was just trying to line up all of the timing marks to top dead center I realized how quickly that could go down hill because I was so clueless as to how any of it worked or would come apart/ go back together etc so even if it was the issue I wasn’t going to mess with it. Going to do a leak down test and see what information I can get from that. Replacing the missing figure 8 o ring seems to have helped, not getting codes, but still having the weak acceleration so I think you were right with needing to restart my diagnostic now that stuff has been replaced. The rpm are better, sitting around 700 instead of 490-500 but still fluctuating a little bit