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Advice on UCAs

Discussion in '5th Gen 4Runners (2010-2024)' started by 6foot4_Mike, Jun 28, 2022.

  1. Jun 28, 2022 at 9:11 AM
    #1
    6foot4_Mike

    6foot4_Mike [OP] New Member

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    Got a 3inch lift coming in from Ironman 4x4. Should I stick with the same brand for the upper control arms, or does it matter? I like theirs, but I prefer the look of the Bilsteins. My 4R spends most of its time as a daily driver. Thank you in advance.
     
  2. Jun 28, 2022 at 9:14 AM
    #2
    Thatbassguy

    Thatbassguy New member? Really??

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    Any upper control arm should pretty much be compatible with any lift, unless you're going to long travel or something like that.

    One thing to consider is to avoid a uni-ball type upper control arm if you drive your vehicle year-round and live in an area where they salt the roads in the winter.
     
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  3. Jun 28, 2022 at 9:22 AM
    #3
    memario1214

    memario1214 Hotshot Offroad Staff Member Vendor

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    This. :thumbsup:
    As @Thatbassguy indicated pretty much any UCA should work. Shameless plug, but if that's the route you decide to go we can get you the Bilstein ones or another recommendation would be SPC which we stock here at Hotshot Offroad.
     
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  4. Jun 28, 2022 at 9:30 AM
    #4
    kmeeg

    kmeeg LionRunner

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    Bilsteins has UCA?


    If I'm not mistaken Ironman allow to use stock UCA. They only force you to buy their track bar and KDSS spacer blocks if you have KDSS (stock panhard bar would hit KDSS brackes when KDSS 4Runners lifted). I would keep stock UCA if it clear the tires and springs at full droop. I'm a big fan of SPC UCAs when it comes to alignment.

    upload_2022-6-28_10-29-49.jpg
     
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  5. Jun 28, 2022 at 10:09 AM
    #5
    whippersnapper02

    whippersnapper02 New Member

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    I went with SPC for my Kings. The reason is I want the adjustability for a proper alignment.
     
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  6. Jun 28, 2022 at 10:23 AM
    #6
    kmeeg

    kmeeg LionRunner

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    I think proper alingment, re-greasable nossle, trouble free balljoint part availability are advantages imo.

    Cons - Toyota dealership has no jacksh** idea about these adjustable UCA when it comes to alignment when my car got the accident. I guess only good 4x4 shops should touch these.
     
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  7. Jun 28, 2022 at 10:24 AM
    #7
    memario1214

    memario1214 Hotshot Offroad Staff Member Vendor

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    Ha I literally walk in with the tech sheet from SPC and requested specs when I have to toss the truck up on a rack.
     
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  8. Jun 28, 2022 at 10:33 AM
    #8
    Thatbassguy

    Thatbassguy New member? Really??

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    That's probably the best idea.

    After my lift, I had one shop ask me for alignment specs. I said to get it into factory specs, and they did a shitty job. There was no symmetry, each side had different results.

    Finally, I took it to a good shop, and they got both sides perfect. To be fair, I told them exactly what I wanted.
     
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  9. Jun 28, 2022 at 10:43 AM
    #9
    memario1214

    memario1214 Hotshot Offroad Staff Member Vendor

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    I literally walk in and hand them the SPC sheet of paper. On it I have written:
    Camber: +.2 Degrees Per Side.
    Caster: +2.2 - +2.5 Degrees Per Side.
    Toe: +.07 - +.10 Degrees Per Side, Do not exceed +.20 Combined

    This is on a Tundra with different tie rod ends as well. I have the Firestone lifetime alignment so it's kind of nice to go out, knock something out of place, and just drive it up to get fixed whenever. That said, I don't often have my SPCs come out of alignment anymore. After I started torqueing the ball joint nut to ~170 ft-lb instead of the 150 I don't get movement hardly at all anymore.
     
  10. Jun 28, 2022 at 10:54 AM
    #10
    kmeeg

    kmeeg LionRunner

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    Sorry in advance if this is a dumb question.

    Alignment shop needs to know to adjust that nut with the plate on SPC right? Not only the bolts they usually adjust?

    Sorry, have no idea about numbers.
     
  11. Jun 28, 2022 at 11:00 AM
    #11
    memario1214

    memario1214 Hotshot Offroad Staff Member Vendor

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    There's 2 primary pieces to the puzzle on the SPC arms. You have the little "star" plate that goes between the ball joint and the underside of the UCA. This dictates your caster. In most people's scenario this is set to Option "D" which is +1deg of additional caster and you don't have to futz with it again. This is the part where a local shop might find themselves scratching their heads though, and where furnishing the sheet can be helpful.

    The other piece is the top nut. After loosening you can slide the ball joint around in the slot cut into the UCA. This is your camber adjustment.
     
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  12. Jun 30, 2022 at 1:38 PM
    #12
    matoolie

    matoolie Taking it a day at a time

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    With the 3” lift you should definitely consider new UCA’s as you are. As stated above, stick with one’s that use OEM type ball joint for basically no maintenance and also use OEM Type rubber bushings at mounts for no maintenance. The adjustable ones can be little difficult to get aligned as being discussed above. Tthere are many UCA’s out there that have fixed caster that will work just fine. I have both Dobinsons and OME UCA’s on my rigs and no complaints from either.
     
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  13. Jun 30, 2022 at 4:00 PM
    #13
    Altitude4x4

    Altitude4x4 New Member

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    SPC has the most adjustability out of the aftermarket UCA's, that being said pick a product that fits your needs. To echo @Thatbassguy , stay away from anything uniball, they require a lot of maintenance and squeak constantly.
     
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  14. Jun 30, 2022 at 5:01 PM
    #14
    DIRTRCR13

    DIRTRCR13 New Member

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    Yes Bilstein makes UCA's. Tubular chromo with OEM style ball joint. Just like OME and Dobison's. But they use polyurethane in the swing joints vice rubber.

    Also, Ironman doesnt "force" you to buy any parts. They just put those packages together (the ones you screen shot) to make it easier than going thru and selecting each piece. Hense the Stage 1 is only shocks and springs...
     
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  15. Jun 30, 2022 at 6:00 PM
    #15
    kmeeg

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    and track bar and KDSS spacer blocks for KDSS. Yes you can buy Non KDSS stage 1 even if you have KDSS. I didn't meant to say company force you. I mean if you select stage 1 for KDSS those additional items will come with the kit. Correct? Or is there a stage 1 kit for KDSS with just shocks and springs? I didn't see on their lift kits. Having those items is a good thing imo as new KDSS owners won't know about this problem when lifting.
     
  16. Jun 30, 2022 at 7:02 PM
    #16
    wmdtech

    wmdtech Send MOD Money!!

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    JBA?? Haven't had any issues out mine
     
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  17. Jun 30, 2022 at 7:54 PM
    #17
    ChessGuy

    ChessGuy New Member

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    Too many..... Performance: • Magnusum Supercharger • Gibson exhaust with dual black tip • Pedal Commander * PowerBrakes • Suspension – Old Man Emu BP-51 front and back with Medium load coils • Tires: AT3 Faulken Wildpeak – 285/70/17 • Wheels: Relations Race Wheels, RR7-H with -12 offset • Full roof rack and ladder by Westcott Design (removed the stock Yakima basket) • Molle storage panels by Rago fabrication • Front light brackets by Rago • Illuminator light bracket by Rago (roof rack location) Lights • Morimoto front and back with sequential signals • Morimoto fog lights and side mirrors with sequential signals • 40” Baja design light bar for roof rack • 20” S8 Baja design driving combo (winch location) • Squadron sport baja design ditch lights • S2 Chase lights by baja designs (mounted on roof) In the bay: • Odyssey 34-PC Battery • SDQH Aluminum billet battery terminals and bracket • Switch Pro 9100 with aluminum tray • Anytime front and back camera • ARB twin compressor Recovery & Protection: • Smittybilt X20 synthetic rope winch • Factor 55 fairlead and flatlink • Southern Style Off-road (SSO) low profile bumper • SSO stage 2 high clearance wings • Weekend warrior recovery kit by treaty oak • RCI – skid plates – entire vehicle + catalytic converter protection wings Interior: • Nano Ceramic IR – Avery Dennison Window tint – all windows • Several phone mounts • Upgraded Rear Hatch lift gate struts (ladder is heavy) • Boom blaster horn switch (featuring La cucaracha)
    SPC is what I put on mine. I got the Old man too in it.
     
  18. Jun 30, 2022 at 8:05 PM
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    kmeeg

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    OME BP-51? I've heard they can be the softest you can dial in. How do you like it? Did the shop recommended SPC over OME UCA? I too look at BP-51 when I was looking for my Limited. Little expensive $3200ish without UCA. So almost 4K with UCA. I bet you are extremely happy when it comes to comfort?
     
  19. Jun 30, 2022 at 8:12 PM
    #19
    ChessGuy

    ChessGuy New Member

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    Too many..... Performance: • Magnusum Supercharger • Gibson exhaust with dual black tip • Pedal Commander * PowerBrakes • Suspension – Old Man Emu BP-51 front and back with Medium load coils • Tires: AT3 Faulken Wildpeak – 285/70/17 • Wheels: Relations Race Wheels, RR7-H with -12 offset • Full roof rack and ladder by Westcott Design (removed the stock Yakima basket) • Molle storage panels by Rago fabrication • Front light brackets by Rago • Illuminator light bracket by Rago (roof rack location) Lights • Morimoto front and back with sequential signals • Morimoto fog lights and side mirrors with sequential signals • 40” Baja design light bar for roof rack • 20” S8 Baja design driving combo (winch location) • Squadron sport baja design ditch lights • S2 Chase lights by baja designs (mounted on roof) In the bay: • Odyssey 34-PC Battery • SDQH Aluminum billet battery terminals and bracket • Switch Pro 9100 with aluminum tray • Anytime front and back camera • ARB twin compressor Recovery & Protection: • Smittybilt X20 synthetic rope winch • Factor 55 fairlead and flatlink • Southern Style Off-road (SSO) low profile bumper • SSO stage 2 high clearance wings • Weekend warrior recovery kit by treaty oak • RCI – skid plates – entire vehicle + catalytic converter protection wings Interior: • Nano Ceramic IR – Avery Dennison Window tint – all windows • Several phone mounts • Upgraded Rear Hatch lift gate struts (ladder is heavy) • Boom blaster horn switch (featuring La cucaracha)
    Yes. The shop and the experts help me go with the SPC. Big difference too using the old man BP51. I like it.

    image000005.jpg
     
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  20. Jun 30, 2022 at 9:30 PM
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    Slopemaster

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  21. Jun 30, 2022 at 9:52 PM
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    Slopemaster

    Slopemaster Slope Survivalist

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  22. Jul 1, 2022 at 2:39 AM
    #22
    Toy4X4

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    We went with the JBA's, they have an amount of additional caster "built" into them. I had to tell the alignment shop of modified specs., they are at about 4.0 caster, the toe in and camber are to factory specs. This might have a bit of bump steer at factory toe in and camber, but only at full movement one way or the other, which doesn't happen much. Tires cost too much now to be wearing them out prematurely!20201222_095113[703]JBA UCA.jpg
     
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  23. Jul 1, 2022 at 3:14 AM
    #23
    GrantA

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    I have the Ironman UCA. I figured if I am getting new UCA might as well get the one that Ironman designed and I like that it uses factory joints in the event of a failure I don’t have to get any special part. Dealerships/part stores would hopefully just have them.
     
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  24. Jul 1, 2022 at 4:12 AM
    #24
    Trail Runnah

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  25. Jul 1, 2022 at 6:10 AM
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    kmeeg

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    I thought SPC is the best for alignment. And UCA won't use the full range of the ball joint, so its not a criticalfactor. Did i understood that wrong?
     
  26. Jul 1, 2022 at 3:09 PM
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    Slopemaster

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    Yes, I’m meh on the whole lift thing. I watched his part 1 & 2 videos again on IFS lifts and it’s interesting that in most cases you actually reduce suspension articulation from stock when you lift, regardless of lift.

    I enjoy the look and the ground clearance of my lift but it seems to come at the price of reduced travel.
     
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  27. Jul 1, 2022 at 3:35 PM
    #27
    Trail Runnah

    Trail Runnah New Member

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    I watched that video when it first came out, I don't even remember exactly what it was that turned me off about the SPCs. I think maybe it was the angle of the ball joint wasn't any better than stock? I don't remember.

    Or it could be that I have no idea what I'm talking about. I'm kind of a dinosaur in that I believe that real off-road vehicles should have solid axles.
     
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  28. Jul 1, 2022 at 3:38 PM
    #28
    Trail Runnah

    Trail Runnah New Member

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    Yeah, I think at anything over like 1.75 in of lift is diminishing returns. It makes sense when you think about how IFS works, all you're doing is pushing the A arms down and making the ride height at a different point in its travel.

    It's really evident when you watch lifted IFS vehicles off-road, and they lift the front wheels at the slightest little thing, because the lift has used up most of the downtravel.

    People crap on bracket lifts, but that's technically the way to do it right and keep all your angles and suspension travel in its stock operating range.
     
  29. Jul 1, 2022 at 3:41 PM
    #29
    kmeeg

    kmeeg LionRunner

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    AMEN..!!
    Lucky Asia, Australia, (not sure what others) still get solid axle Land cruiser 70 series with TURBO DIESEL V8 manual transmission..!!
     
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  30. Jul 1, 2022 at 5:00 PM
    #30
    Trail Runnah

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    Yeah, they get some great vehicles. I mean we can still buy Jeeps if we want front solid axles at least. Whenever I think about modding my 4Runner for off-road, in the back of my mind. I always think how I could pick up an XJ Cherokee for just what a couple steel bumpers for my 4Runner would cost.

    On the other hand, I wouldn't necessarily want to drive an XJ hundreds of miles to get to the trails.
     
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