23 TRD ORP KDSS Leak

Heyo!

New 4Runner owner here, just picked up a 2023 TRD Off-Road Premium with about 30k miles. While doing my first oil change since buying it, I noticed the front KDSS piston looked wet with oil around the bottom of the boot. From what I can tell, it definitely looks like a leak starting.

I took it to two different Toyota dealerships, and both techs agreed that it looked wet and appeared to be leaking, but since there was no “active drip,” they said Toyota wouldn’t consider it a failure yet and that the warranty claim would be denied.

I called Toyota corporate and opened a case since my factory warranty expires in a month, but I’m not super confident they’ll do anything without more obvious leakage.

Here’s a pic of what I’m seeing. To me, it’s pretty clear that it’s leaking, but I’m curious what others have experienced.

Is there any other possible explanation for the oil buildup there, or is a slow leak the only likely cause?

Has anyone had KDSS components replaced under warranty for this kind of early seepage? Did Toyota make you wait until it got worse? Any advice on how to push the case before my warranty expires?

Appreciate any input! I love the truck, but I’d really like to get this sorted before I’m footing the bill myself.

 

Welcome

 

Thank you! Glad to be here

 

I’d push for a warranty claim as much as possible. I’ve seen some posts on the forum showing these leaks happen sometimes. Not sure what it takes to repair these, but I don’t think it’s cheap.

 

Oil on the skid plate plate seems to be a good sign that its clearly leaking.
I wonder those Toyota dealerships try to avoid because they don't have KDSS tools. If you are in Denver Colorado I can let you know the Toyota dealership who does KDSS repairs. I've seen several happy customers who got their KDSS ram replaced. Its common and no big deal. I don't have firsthand experience as I avoid KDSS when buying.

Also opening a claim via Toyota owners profile is a powerful tool as well. I have extremely happy experience with them when dealership screw up on service and accident repair.

 

This is what the ram looked like on my 2021 when I had it replaced under warranty (1 month before it expired). The dealers around here don't have the tools to replace it on hand but rather share it amongst the dealers, sending it onto the next dealer that needs it. If you're still under warranty you really need to push to get it replaced as it's a pricey part. It's a sealed pressurized system so they shouldn't need to wait for a drip to form before fixing it under warranty.

 

Welcome from Wisconsin! You mean they don't want to submit a claim because you're obviously in warranty yet(30K) The service manager can tell corporate it's leaking/dripping it's not coming out of his pocket. Get rid of the KDSS all together.. end of leak!

 

Welcome

 

I'm sure no dealership like to do warranty work as they don't get paid by the manufacturer as a customer paid job.

 

Some dealerships 'eat it up', if the mechanics are good, they can turn an hour job into a 35 or 40 min. I'm sure when Toyota pays for warranty work, it's strictly by the book(flat rate book) vs. a customer paying for the same hour job, where some of the time could be 'fudged' to account for a 'not so good' mechanic. I know what you're saying though.. As far as service managers are concerned.. you would be surprised how many of them 'deny' the existence of the 'needle bearing thing'. Just sayin'.

 

Had mine replaced under warranty, no issues. Dealer had to borrow tool from Lexus dealership, so took a couple of weeks before I was booked in. Mine was leaking but the clunking from the piston when going over anything not smooth is what got my attention.

 

Welcome!

 

I ended up buying some hydraulic jack fluid and poured a bit around the boot (and even on the skid plate) to really highlight the leak. Took it back to the first Toyota dealership, and once again they told me that since they couldn’t see an active drip, there was nothing they could do.

I called Toyota corporate again and was told someone from the dealership would reach out—no one ever did. So I went back in person and asked to speak with the service manager. I had to be pretty assertive and asked them to show me Toyota documentation proving that the leak they were seeing was considered “acceptable.” At that point they said they’d contact their rep for warranty approval.

Thankfully, they finally budged and replaced the piston under warranty. Total repair was $4300. But honestly, the whole experience left a bad taste in my mouth. I can’t believe how much time and energy it took to get them to address something that was clearly a problem.

This is my first Toyota—I’ve always owned Hondas—and I’ve never dealt with this kind of pushback. I’m relieved it was fixed without me having to spend thousands, but man, it was stressful.

 

^One of the reasons Toyota got rid of KDSS for 6th gen. Just sayin'

 

Doubt that. 6th gen Is too expensive and they needed to cut costs. E-kdss, obviously an advancement of kdss and double the rams, is still available on lexus vehicles and the 300 series land cruisers. Double the rams is going to be more expensive than the old system so toyota came up with a different system for the "less expensive" models.

 

^Or they decided to limit the less reliable equipment to lower-volume models like GX, LX, and LC300 to reduce warranty exposure. Toyota has 15+ years of failure data on KDSS. Double the rams, double the leak points.

 

Please share the 15 years of failure data. I have kdss on mine and before I bought it, I researched for months and while I found some issues, most were due to neglect in the rust belt. Why put it on the "flag ship" models if it's not a generally reliable system? The land cruiser is supposed to be the king of the hill with reliability as it's supposedly engineeed to last 25 years. It's had kdss since 2008 on the 200 series. toyota still has it on the current 300. Yes some may have issues but I'd be willing to bet that overall it's a good system. Toyota would not keep it going if it were not. That's why they got rid of the xreas system across the board. And I bet the 3.4 TT will be gone in a few years as I think this generation cycle of the tundra will be short compared to the 2nd gen.

 

^You're confusing marketing with reality. By marketing, the Land Cruiser is designed to last 25 years or 250k miles before major repairs, twice as long as other Toyota models. That means your 4Runner was designed to last 13 years or 125k miles before major repairs? In reality, the Land Cruiser station wagons and Lexus models have additional complexity, not additional reliability, features like height adjustable suspension and fingerprint readers on the outside door handles tied to seat memory settings. Toyota was able to do that because those models are low volume - Toyota sold fewer LC200/LX570 in North America over its entire 14-year production run than a single year of 4Runners. A lot of those features don't survive well in a mass-market model sold in North America. I don't have 15 years of failure data, but Toyota does! You're in a thread complaining about a KDSS defect before warranty, and another two guys chiming in that it happened to them, in a thread with 830 views. Imagine how many failures there would be when extrapolated to the 1.47 million 5th gens sold.

 

Just to add to my comment, the front ram was warrantied at 60,000km. I'm now at 170,000km trouble free.

 

Low volume for North America sure, but is it low volume world wide? I don't know, but I imagine it's not low volume for the world market since it's offered in so many other markets. I'm merely saying that sure there will be issues with KDSS as everything has issues, but Toyota would not keep it going if it were bad. Just like the needle bearing issue happening before warranty is out. Most dont have an issue with the needle bearing buts it's amplified on the web and it's more than likely a reliable item than not. I'm sure there are more needle bearing issue posts on here than kdss issue posts. You implied they got rid of kdss because of cost and reliability. I don't believe it to be a reliability issue. I do believe it's a cost issue since the 6th Gen is so expensive. Plus, they have soo many SUV's now in Toyota competing against each other. So they have to keep some features away from certain models. Again, why would Toyota keep offering kdss on their flag ship models if it were not generally reliable? Last thing Toyota wants is what is known for reliability for decades (land cruiser) have an item installed (kdss) that is known by them to be unreliable. Bad business model.

 

As I mentioned in my post earlier I had my front ram replaced at around 48k km. My brother's 2012 4Runner and my brother in-laws 2015 4Runner have had no issues with their kdss systems. I believe it's truly luck of the draw if something goes wrong with it just like any part can have a malfunction no matter how reliable it's supposed to be.

 

Bumping this post, mine has been leaking (seeping). I'm at 34k miles. Taking it in tomorrow. I am definitely worried they are going to tell me it's normal or some other dealership BS to get out of the repair. Fingers crossed they keep things legit.

 

This really isn't a thing. Dealers don't just say no to get out of a repair. In general terms a good dealer likes warranty work as they typically make close to what the CP rate is. Depending on the state the manufacture is required to pay CP rate on parts and labor not just what MSRP is. Having said that there is a ton that goes on behind the scenes in a good dealership that the general public does not see. Large repairs like this one a dealer would not want to be on the hook for $4,000 so they will diag the car determine what has failed and and get with their Toyota rep to get approval on said repair. When people complain "this dealer wouldn't warranty this" 99% of the time it isn't said dealer it is the manufacturer. Basically every manufacture now requires photos and videos to be uploaded during any warranty repair which allows them to see the problem first hand and for larger repairs make a decision if they want to cover it or not.

 

File a consumer complaint with your state attorney general asap before the warranty expires.

 

One would think if the news was that bad Toyota wouldn’t have stuck with it for 15 years.

 

^No skin off Toyota's back as long as KDSS fails after 3yr/36k. Similarly, Toyota kept XREAS for what, 21 years?

As for @Coma4by's question, "Why put it on the 'flag ship' models if it's not a generally reliable system?" Because people who buy 'flag ship' models expect gimmicky and techy features, and have the deep pockets to keep them running:

 

Well good news. Piston replaced under warranty! Smooth interaction, which is nice after a series of other annoying car related retail experiences.

I know one of the techs at my dealership, maybe that helped a bit.

 

Hurray!
Waut yours is also a 23 ORP?
Damn I have the exact same model :/

 

Yeah 23 ORP Lunar Rock.

 

Sure hope that doesn't happen to my 23 ORP Lunar Rock! Glad they got it fixed for you.