New engine...?

Hi all! I've got a 2006 4Runner Limited, 4.7L with 142k on the clock. My mechanic was looking for the source of a chattering sound in the area of my left VVT actuator. After cleaning the filter, and replacing the actuator, the chatter was still present but more so since there was no residual oil in the actuator. This and other evidence such as cam wear, etc., lead him to the conclusion the that the oil flow to that side of the engine was restricted. His guess was a piece of a failed oil filter was at fault. They tell me I have something restricting oil flow to the left side of the engine. Options are tear the engine down until they find whatever is causing the problem or throwing in a new engine. Cost to tear the engine down looking for the problem is , of course, unknown. Cost to replace the engine is $8500. Looking to the members for opinions on the options and the cost to replace the engine. The vehicle is in excellent condition, notwithstanding the engine issue. It's my primary driver. Any input would be helpful at this point.

 

Sounds like your guy is still guessing. If it runs well keep it or trade it in for a different vehicle. Don't spend $8,500 on a guess. Good luck.

 

Not an expert in this area, but I would think $8500 would be too much to invest in a 13 year old vehicle. I just had a head gasket replaced in my 05 Taco and I felt that may have been too much. Im curious as to what others might think. You could probably buy a different 4runner for that much, sell the old one as is and still be ahead.

Like the other post says, if it runs well, and noise is not terrible, may just leave as is and save up for the next one.

Final thought is (gasp) dealership. They know these trucks and their common issues. You could always decline service, but at least you'll know.

 

Just talking with him, I think he's solid on the oil flow issue. He's just unsure as to what the obstruction is. The vehicle runs great, notwithstanding a chattering actuator. But with low oil flow to one side, I'm sure catastrophe is just around the corner.

 

The chattering actuator is fairly annoying and a constant reminder that something is still not right inside the engine. Since this our only means of transportation, I'd be worried about being stranded on the road. I have considered taking it to the stealership for a "second opinion". The closest one to me is 125 miles away.

 

I hear you. My head gasket took a week at the dealer. New engine, engine repair, or stranded, youd be looking for a rental. Its upper engine disassembly.

May be worth calling the dealer and trying to talk to someone.

 

Great idea but talking to the dealerships around is next to useless. All you get is "Hard to diagnose a problem on the phone, you have to bring it in"

 

I guess I'm lucky. I call head of service direct cell phone if I need some stat info. Weve built a relationship over the years. 3 Yotas. I use it judiciously, maybe 2-3x year. I get labor and part quotes then decide if gonna have them do it or will do it myself. Good luck.

 

Yes, very lucky!

 

No point in replacing the engine until it's your only option. Would it be worth dropping the oil pan and doing a quick inspection and running a magnet through it to check for any metal chunks? At least then you'd know if you had something for sure that broke off and bits still lodged somewhere. What about replacing the VVT solenoid? I wouldn't let it go or ignore it if your mechanic thinks it's an oil flow issue. Having him tear it down won't be cheap but it won't be $8500 either. Then again you might not be happy with what he finds when he does tear it down not knowing what other damage it could have caused. Set yourself a repair budget you're comfortable with and if you're not up for throwing money at it then sell it or trade it in. This is one of those follow your instinct things. Personally I'd trade it in if my mechanic was iffy and brought up anything about a new engine.

 

Thx for the feedback! The VVT actuator has been replaced and the small filter in that area cleaned and replaced. The idea about the oil pan magnet is a good one I will pursue. With all the chattering the actuator makes now, I would not get much for it in a trade or a sale and I can't handle a large car payment now.

 

It's not like you have to bring up the actuator when trading it in. Most likely they aren't going to do an extensive check on it either. They'll ask you basic questions for which you just answer just normal wear and tear, and they will take it for a quick drive. They'll come back and offer you just a tad below or right at the dealer KBB for a trade and send it off to the auction. Have you even checked what your KBB trade value is yet? Don't sell yourself short until you're sure you're a midget.

 

Good point!

 

For what it's worth, it's almost always cheaper to repair than replace.

I think you have 3 options:
Drive it till the engine grenades - $8500
Fix it - probably cheaper
Get another opinion

It sounds like the previous owner neglected oil changes and/or cheaped out (fram filters) on oil/parts. That 4.7L is a million mile motor if properly taken care of.

Toyota's VVT is oil driven, so oil changes are important. Also, the 4.7L has interfering valves. This means when the valve timing is off, the piston can hit them. You likely need new valves on that side + whatever collateral damage that caused.

Personally, I'd drive it while saving money for a new engine or trade it.

$8500/12 = $708.33 / month
$8500/24 = $354.17 / month

It sucks, but life is expensive. It's why I set aside a little each month for repairs. When repairs come, it's no big deal. A little bit over a long period adds up quickly.

 

Thx, sleepybear, very sage advice. I am the original owner and I did change my oil religiously for the last 13 years with Mobil 1. Probably my downfall was using Fram filters. I've found a low mileage engine at LKQ for about $2200 that looks good and has enough warranty to cover infant mortality scenarios. I was budgeting for a new vehicle in 2-3 years anyway so this should get me to that point with the least amount of pain. I was basically going to run out the Michelins I just put on and then trade it in for whatever I could get.

 

Sorry, didn’t mean to sound rude. Once Honeywell started making fram filters, they became garbage. When they were bendix, they were good quality. No longer can you trust a brand name.

If it helps, I saw a remanufactured 4.7 on jegs. 3 year warranty. $4200. Not sure what it costs to install.

 

No worries, I know where you're coming from. I suppose I had never heard of oil filters failing. Now that I have been doing research on the subject, I see it's not all that rare. It's interesting to read on the Bob Is the Oil Guy's website (well known source for oil/filter info from the subject matter fanatics) how many claim Fram to a great filter in spite of know issues. Personally, I think it has a lot to do with overseas manufacturing; the workmanship and materials are just not up to what we were used to before they moved out of the US.

I looked at the Jegs engine and just can't see putting that much into a vehicle I will only keep for maybe 3 more years and the Jegs engine couldn't be shipped until mid July. Jegs also has many negative reviews online...I was kinda surprised by that. I went ahead and rolled the dice on the LKQ engine. We'll see how it goes. It's coming out of a 2008 Lexus 470 so maybe they took good care of it...who knows.

 

In fram's case, they can't blame the manufacturing. Honeywell took over/bought the brand and ruined it. They are a HORRIBLE company. (I deal with them for other "products"). If I had a choice of being an engineer for them or waiting tables, I'd wait tables.

They reduced the quality of the filter media and reduced the number of pleats to maximize profit. Less pleats = less linear filter media usage and = more profit. When you specify an inferior media, it doesn't matter where it's made.

All I can say is people hang onto "facts" with nothing but opinion and emotion. OEM toyota filters are inexpensive. Fram filters in the long run are expensive. They used to be a good product, just not anymore.

Interesting roll of dice on that motor! Are you going to run this one until it breaks or just swap and have a spare for parts?

 

Hopefully, I will run it until I'm ready to buy another vehicle in 60-70K miles as a primary driver then keep it as a tow vehicle for my boat after that. The LKQ engine only has about 100K on it, that's low miles for these 4.7L's. I checked the auction details using the VIN of the car it's coming off of. It would start and idle as of the sell date at the auction last month...maybe it will work out.

 

Have you considered putting a higher pressure bypass spring in the oil pump?

 

No I haven't. How would that fix my obstruction problem?

 

Your obstruction theory may be in error. Even if its not, increasing the oil pressure might be a good remediation. Your slightly worn engine shouldn't have any issues routinely associated with higher than stock oil pressure.
Id try that before tearing down the engine. And its easily reversed.

 

Thx, I'll run it by my mechanic.

 

You might want to consider dropping the pan and just seeing what kind (if any) of goo is floating around. If it is oil filter media there will likely be some in the pan.
If you find just sludgy stuff, I'd consider draining the oil and replacing it with half oil and half kerosene. Start up AND IDLE ONLY for 10 min (unless you hear bearing rattling). This should clean out any sludge. Drain crankcase and replace oil and filter.

 

Already checked the pan for debris, it was clean. The heads were inspected on both sides and found to be clean. On the side with the chattering actuator other evidence of low oil flow was found on the cams. The small oil gunnel filter near the actuator was a bit dirty but nothing that would affect the flow to any extent. This engine is very clean so sludge is not the issue. Mobil 1 every 5000 miles since it rolled its first mile.