What? Huh? KDSS issues

No, i did not approve anything.

 

What are you asking of us?

 

If Toyota do this under warranty (for free) thats great.

I know people in KDSS group converting to non KDSS with aftermarket parts.

 

If you know of a way to rip out KDSS and retrofit standard sway bars into a 4Runner that was originally KDSS equipped, without welding in multiple components, please enlighten me. Do you see any dealer doing this?

 

What exactly do they propose for deleting KDSS? It will take a lot more than removing spacers.

 

No idea, waiting to talk to the tech, because serice advisors are as useless.

 

OP, Also interested to know;




1) What is the actual issue?

• Is it a lean you are dealing with? KDSS leans are very common and Lexus already have a TSB to swap the spring to correct the lean. So might be able to fight Toyota go get it fixed under warranty while not stripping the the entire system.

• Is it a KDSS ram leaking and have KDSS light on? This is also common. Leaking front ram is very common due to use. Just like shocks they wear-out and can be replaced. Last time I saw the parts was about 1800bucks here in Denver CO. Rear ram leaks are rear but happens.

2) Whats with the spacers?

• Are you having a spacer lift causing problems?
• Or are you having issues with bushings using KDSS spacers?
  • In this case I would take it to a Toyota specialist 4x4 shop to diagnose and the fix would be a better option than stripping the entire KDSS system.

In short what I wanted to tell is you can fix KDSS issues ("all issues I've seen with KDSS"). And then maintain it to reduce the problems in future. Converting to Non KDSS should not be the ONLY option.

 

Hopefully not but maybe the tech is thinking its XREAS.

If tech is thinking that then I'd find another dealer.

 

Very interested in what they say. At some point KDSS will go like any part so a dealer fix/delete would be nice. But from what i have seen a welded/fixed replacement for the hydraulic ram is an option.

I also had a dealer saying one of my hydraulic rams was leaking and it wasn't. soo...

 

Even with 1/2 inch spacer on front right strut, and 10mm OME spacer on rear right spring, i get a lean, sometimes as much as an inch. I wanted the system bled and re-pressurized. The previous owner had a 2 inch lift on the car and it was leaning. it's back on stock springs now. So, there is mechanic at this dealer who supposedly is a guru, and has dealt with multiple malfunctioning KDSS systems. Well, the service advisor screwed up , of course, and the mechanic can't work on my car, and only his subordinates do. Well, about an hour and half into the service, i get that message above. Things are going downhill fast.

 

Atleast here in Denver CO from what I heard not all Toyota dealers have the tools for KDSS. Looks like the dealership you went even have an expert for KDSS. I hope that you get a chance to chat with him and get your KDSS lean fixed. To my eyes KDSS lean is something could be fixed and absolutely not worth striping the entire system out.

 

A shop dedicated to 4x4’s or better yet, one well-versed in Toyota 4x4’s is the best option IMO.

Dealer will likely want to charge you big to go stock or just throw other parts at it and hope. Techs aren’t paid in a way that encourages thorough diagnosis and testing.

 

Are they willing to give it to the supposed KDSS expert if you tell them you would be willing to wait?

If not, maybe just take it somewhere else. They seem a bit too eager to tear it apart, especially since it seems that it wasn’t your idea to delete KDSS.

And regardless, I’ve heard that there aren’t any threaded holes in the frame for standard swaybars, and IIRC you can’t fit the standard swaybar links on the KDSS spindle.

Is $3.5k the bill for what’s been done, or an estimate for removal of Kdss?

 

I can only assume this is somebody whose KDSS has already failed. Otherwise, why would anybody spend money on switching to a non-KDSS setup?

 

It's hard to believe a Toyota service place actually recommended removing the KDSS system for a non-KDSS setup.- it's not like you can just unbolt one and replace it with the other.

 

The right side, without the battery and fuel tank, is sitting lower?

 

for $3568 to swap in some SR5 parts it would be profitable, I assume they have the software to disable the KDSS alerts. The parts can't be more than a few hundred dollars for the dealer to source. Maybe 10 hours of labor? Easy way to make 2k, lol.

 

You also have to weld on all of the brackets. I suppose if you've done it a few times, it's probably not hard. But, it sounds odd for a dealership to do this.

 

Dealerships usually have welders on staff or a welding shop on contract.

A couple of years ago there was a recall on Ford trucks using certain Dana rear axles. The "fix" was to add additional welds to the spring perch on the axle tube. It was all done at dealership level. Results varied of course but it's "easy enough" for franchise dealers.

 

I think everyone is missing the point.

This post was to highlight how useless most of dealership Service Advisors are. For anyone to even propose this, at a Toyota dealership, is idiotic. Do you know the kind of liability concerns this brings to a Toyota dealership, making structural changes to a car, not approved by Toyota. If I had the time, I would chase this down and have them actually propose the actual procedure and ask what kind of warranty and assurances I get that this modification to car's suspension is safe as well as within the design that Toyota approved. I'm going to gueess that when this got pushed up to management, they would say "WTF are you thinking?" An independent 4x4 shop is one thing, but the dealer, under the Toyota name is another.

 

Agreed. Hence post #15.

 

And #18.

 

I’m curious, the total amount listed was for the job of reengineering the suspension to non-kdss? Or was it for other work they did?

If it was a quote to change it out to regular swaybars, then they probably underquoted lol.

Yeah I agree that’s a dumb suggestion for a service advisor to be making. One of the reasons I hate going to dealers for repair work…that feeling of dread that you’re going to walk up to the wrong advisor that will make the whole experience hell, or a waste of time.

 

Some times dealerships put ridiculous notes and amounts to get the customer away. Like sometimes they put need new engine or transmission so customer go to a independent shop. Dealerships benefits from quick money. So this could be a ways dealership say "I don't want to deal with your kdss problems. "

 

Well, they did. I got the call today. They bled and repressurized the KDSS system as I asked them to, total was $830 plus tax. Lean is gone. Also, what I didn't mention in the thread is that, since they screwed up on Friday and could not do what I wanted, they kept my 4Runner and I have been driving a free loaner since then, and until tomorrow. It's a loaded 2025 4Runner TRD Offroad with 5k on the clock. So, I guess there was some positive in this experience. The servie advisor sucked, but their customer relations manager did right by me.

 

How was the 2025?

 

Very nice to hear that.

In case needed opening a complaint on Toyota owners portal is also a very strong way. Without Toyota owners portal complaint I may not be driving a 2021 4runner when 2018 4runner got into accident while it's with the dealership.

 

And #5

I 2nd the question how was the 2025?

 

Nice, fast, loaded with goodies, but I would not take it into the mountains and worry about getting it pinstriped, or worse, dinged. Too $$. Also, man, I hate the sound of a 4 cylinder engine. Not that the 5th gens are refined in their sound, but that sound just irks me.

 

I am glad you are educating yourself as its required to resolve your drivability issue.
I had a torque converter FlexLock system failure at 48,000 miles. My knowledge gained reading on this forum and other forums allowed me to collaborate with my servicing dealer service manager. Toyota first approved an incorrect replacement of torque converter to solve the shudder. $3,000 wasted as the root problem (as I learned) was in the tranny valve body. Then Toyota approved the correct replacement of a new transmission $5,000 which fixed the shudder problem. So Toyota and dealers get it wrong. It is up to you to know as much or more than them if you want a correct fix.