Transmission questions, issue after fluid change

Was trying to do right by my 2016 with 140k miles. I could not find records of it getting any transy fluid changed it. At 140k I asked Midas to drain and fill. They did so. Immediately, the 4Runner would randomly not want to engage the clutch packs for 1st gear. But it is totally random and only about 5% of the time. You generally have to be decelerating toward a turn, the transmission shifts down, you give gas after you turn, the rpm’s increase, but power is not applied to wheels. Then wham, it will engage like dropping the clutch. But it is so random, I have a hard time pinning it down, not knowing what to do about it. Sometimes it will do the opposite. You will come to a stop, foot on brake, and then the truck will lurch forward as if you let off a clutch while you hold the brake. It just lurches for a moment, but returns to normal.

I went back to Midas to hear how they drained it (not flush), how they determined the level, and what fluid they used. It all sounded legit. But.. they then suggested I take it to a transmission shop.

if it were more than 5%, I could
Justify, but I also worry that if something is wrong, it might grow worse. Although it has been about 8 weeks and it seems to be about the same.

 

Sounds underfilled.

 

Ditto. Sounds low on fluid.

 

I would just take it to a dealer and have them do another pan drain/refill to set the level right. Plus another drain/fill can not hurt.

 

Don't ever take your car to these quicky places. They never use OEM fluid and almost always do not know how to set the correct level. Take it to dealer, have them changed fluid and set level.

 

Thanks everyone. This seems like the best approach. Thanks!

 

If you look up that data sheet on that universal transmission fluid, its “suitable” for Toyota WS fluid, and everything else, but it’s only “approved” to replace Dexeon/Mercon.

I’d have Midas pay the dealer to do a full flush to get out all of the unapproved fluid they put in your transmission that immediately causes it to start having problems.



https://reladyne.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/PDS_DuraMAX_Global_ATF_0222-01.pdf

 

I'd be more concerned about how much debris and fiberglass insulation is floating around in that bulk drum of DuraMAX transmission fluid than the fluid itself. Before anything, verify the transmission fluid level is correct.

 

They probably turned vehicle off during the leveling process. Or just didn’t know how to do it properly… which is kinda weird to me, since it is really easy to do, and hard to mess up.

Cold drain, meaning vehicle sits overnight on a level surface. Drain, refill + 1/2 quart or so. Plug in obd2 and monitor atf pan temp. Start 4Runner.

While you’re waiting for the temp to come up, shift from park to drive, reverse, etc hold each gear for 3-5 seconds

once pan reaches 104 or so, crack open 5mm hex check plug while truck is still idling. Once the stream “breaks, and dribbles” fasten check plug back up.

take vehicle for spin. Operating temp is 175-190 depending on how long you’ve been driving. Make some WOT shifts, somewhat hard braking so fast downshifts etc, and make sure it’s good.

That’s exactly how I did my 30k spill and fill, and didn’t have any issues. I drain out about 3.5 quarts and it was pretty dark, but did not smelt burned up at all. I live in south Florida, and in stop and go traffic with a 1 hour commute sometimes I will see converter get 200+ but it always equals out with pan temp. 2 hour drive highest I’ve seen pan was 198.

I don’t think a lot of people realise how long it takes for a transmission to get to 175+ it’s about 20-30 mins of driving on highway or probably less in city with shifting and TC unlocked

 

Could be low fluid level, but it’s hard to ignore the fact they used a “universal” fluid. It wasn’t even an aftermarket fluid meant to replicate WS.

 

no problems before then you have problems after they touched it? Id get it to a toyota dealership asap to drain/refill with WS fluid and do proper temp level check. Stay away from midas and other BS chain stores.

 

Welcome from Wisconsin! Take your vehicle to a Toyota dealership, have them drain and flush the trans, pay for it, and hope the trans is OK, whatever the cost of a drain and flush is, it's still cheaper than a trans. rebuild. Good luck.

 

Spend the extra money and just have the dealer change the trans fluid in your 4runner. I have the dealer change all the fluids on my tundra and 4runner. Those jiffy lube or similar spots are horrible. Only thing i have them do is my emissions check. And even then, at times they dont know what they are doing.

 

Any updates?

 

This is a classic case of underfilled. Ask me how I know.......

 

Look at this as a learning experience. It's gonna be a pricey lesson as having a drain/fill done with the proper Toyota ATFWS fluid isn't going to get all the wrong fluid they put in back out.

As @Toy4X4 said earlier, you need to have it flushed to get out as much of that Jiffy Lube junk as possible. Thats gonna be a lot of ATFWS, which isn't exactly cheap.

That being said, it's way cheaper than a new transmission so dont just do a drain and fill to get the right level of fluid expecting that to be the end of it.

 

12 qrts i believe but also be careful with a flush based on your current mileage at 140k

 

I’d sooner expect wrong procedure or quantity than bad fluid since folks get by with both non-Toyota WS spec and something like MaxLife.

 

Toyota ATF WS has been around for more than two decades. It isn't some mysterious elixir whipped up at Hogwarts.

 

Don't go to those places. You don't know what fluid they are using or if they know what they are doing. If you change the fluid to often, it can cause slippage. A girl I know was getting $29 oil changes and no oil on the stick. She was only paying for 5 quarts only or they didn't know or stick it after changing. You get what you pay for sometimes. Never flush on high mileage transmissions, don't change before 30k on WS fluid. I had torque convertor shutter around 192k. They recommend not to change after 100k. It was so dirty I couldn't in good conscience not change it. I drained and filled according to procedure, pretty much, and added a pint of the old fluid with band material back in with the new. It cured my shutter and did create anymore transmission issues. The band material floating in the fluid provides bite for clutches and bands on higher mileage with more internal wear. I guess thats why it passes through the transmission screen. I changed the fluid in my 2001 Limited high mileage I bought on a lot, serviced everything so I would know what is what, and that transmission went out. The lot must have changed it. It had 265k. I'm at 240k now and chugging along. This was mine. It came out brown like muddy water and after settling a week in the jug, it turned dark red with clouds of band material floating in it. It didn't smell that burnt really. Only use Toyota or Aisin WS fluid. I've never changed a transmission filter in any 4runner as long as I drain and fill. Changing the transmission filter and not doing correctly creates problems. Especially if the filter seal has been replaced and/or is leaking.

 

I went to my Toyota dealer today. And I spoke to service manager. He was reluctant to just drop the fluid and fill again. He said something (that I have also seen posted) that it is not uncommon for clean fluid in an older transmission to “unmask” clutch issues. Meaning the dirty / metal fluid actually helps the clutch packs.

he felt there was some risk that dumping it again, could make matters worse.
He wanted a master tech to spend some time with it. Check for codes and other things. There was not one available today, so I went back home.

Here are the options as I see them

1) take his hypothesis as is and drive it. It probably won’t get worse in this scenario

2) take him up on his offer and hope the master tech is on his/her game and can say for sure

3) take it to a transmission specialist who does transy work all day.

 

But you have not even verified the level yet.

 

You need to verify level… it’s as simple as getting an oil change, honestly. Watch one of Vikings Garage on YouTube. I’ll post the link. You will be so suprised, it is simple. The only thing you need is a obd2 reader than can read atf pan temp. Follow the procedures, and you can correct this yourself! Save money and don’t get jerked around and the possible “it needs a new transmission”

If you do decide to tackle this yourself and learn, watch this WHOLE video first so you get an understanding. It’s a 4/10 on the easy scale.

https://youtu.be/4Rhb0xB4zdY?si=Jgf8Usr97afqDMl3

 

I’m watching this post to see what the resolution ends up being. Not to hijack the post but has anyone else purchased this WS ATF on Amazon?? It’s from an actual dealership. I bought 8 liters (2 cans) and plan on using it when I do my drain and fill at 60K miles.

 

This 100%. And like everyone has said “underfilled” I bet they did a measured exchange and didn’t compensate for the temperature difference which would make it underfilled. You add more back in than you take out basically.

 

As long as the seller remains from that dealership (watch closely especially if it has multiple quantities available on the listing) and it isn’t fulfilled by Amazon then sure.

For my drain/fill though, I needed less than a gallon I believe.

 

if its low on fluid it could introduce air and cause the transmission to act like you say

 

the transmission has a breather, like a differential

when you refill WS fluid and you want to “get it all” sometimes you end up “slurping or pumping the last bit” of fluid up, sounds like you push air into it, but that’s what the procedure is for… it will remove excess pressure if there is any when you’re parked, shifting the gears waiting for 104 degrees