So long Toyota

I have owned 2 G-wagens. Gray market vehicles from 1985 and 1991. (Both had solid front axles, BTW) I ended up selling them because of parts availability difficulties. I replaced the G’s with a ‘95 Defender which I drove for about 12 years until I had parts difficulties with that vehicle too. In that case it was a scarcity of proprietary parts only used on the North American version of which fewer than 3000 were imported. So when you warn about the future parts availability for low production volume vehicles I can affirm that that is a valid concern.

 

Your point is well taken. I see so many 4 Runners (not just Limiteds) being used to pick up kids from Soccer Practice. The lady who owned my '19 had the navigation system set up to guide her to the Food Lion grocery store. If I am right and most 5th Gen 4 Runner owners were just making a fashion statement and never towed once, never went off the pavement once, then let the Hoarding of all remaining Gen 5s with 4WD begin today.

But as the owner of 6 turbocharged vehicles, let me say there's power and then there's power. Many large displacement motors are not so great, but some are great and the only thing that would make the 5th generation 4.0 liter better, would be if the block was iron. Numbers mean only so much - I want the effortless power this 4.0 seems to have.

And I want to withhold judgment as to what kind of fuel mileage the new ones are gonna get. I'm showing 19.1 mpg and it has been 19.0 or 19.1 for months. This is much better than I was expecting.

 

This was my biggest hurdle, time will tell if it was worth the risk.

 

When I bought my ‘22 ORP the Grenadier was still quite new. I might have considered it seriously if the timing had been different. Please check back in and give us your impressions when you’ve had a chance to evaluate it.

 

Grenadine.

 

I agree, a good number of 4Runners are owned by folks who just want something rugged looking and never use them to the extent of their capabilities.

I also agree that there's a difference between good numbers on paper, and real world performance. But, what I've read so far about towing with the 4th gen Tacoma has been very positive.

Believe it or not, there are some on this forum that don't think a 4Runner should be used for towing at all. I've towed with all 3 of mine.

As far as fuel economy, what you're getting is above average. So far, according to Fuelly, the 6th gen is averaging around 2.5 MPG better than the 5th gen. While it's still not great, it's a notable improvement.

Also, I'm well aware that nobody is buying these pigs for fuel economy. But, any improvement is going to look good to potential buyers.

 

Thanks for reminding me; I'm almost out of Grenadine.

 

Can’t say I’ve heard that before. It has to work pretty hard IMO to make power.

Probably because it isn’t all that great at towing. It’s got to work. It’s much better on premium, but my 4th gen (V8, mind you) towed my boat much better. The trans always wanting to upshift is the killer here I think, which is why many do S4. Premium reduced that need, not completely eliminated it for me however. I’d be interested to see how these would behave with a tow/haul mode.

 

Yeah. Nobody thinks they're "great" at towing.

My point was that they can tow. And, they're fine for a lot of people's towing needs.

The manual states that you should tow in S mode. It doesn't specify S4 or S5, but the transmission does default to S4. I've been telling people to use S4 for years.

The manual also states that you should never exceed 65 MPH when towing, on a flat, straight, dry road. But, people will still throw it in D and go try hauling a trailer 80 MPH and then bitch that it sucks at towing.


My '03 V8 towed better, also. But, my '94 was really only good for a small fishing boat. Thankfully, that's pretty much all I ever towed back then.

 

ya mean after 25 years of little to no breakdowns, Ford & Jeep don't sound appealing? Ooops, I said it. also, "Grenadier" doesn't sound nearly as cool as '4Runner" so I think you'll be back. But really, best of luck!

 

jk
Goodluck Mike!

 

Principles of overlanding podcast? Lmao. Car camping is not that complicated

 

Balong, I am wondering if all the wheel and tire mods and lifts and luggage racks are cutting into the performance of this normally aspirated 4.0 six., for some. I've got plenty of torque in the lower rev range and that's crucial IMO in staying out of trouble. Frankly I don't know how much more power this older transmission design can handle. These Michelin Defenders seem to have fairly low resistance. Folks talk about losing gas mileage when making modifications but I am much more concerned about losing quickness and losing driving range with a stock gas tank. 19.1 average, maybe 14 mpg towing.

As for towing, a lot of this is what you compare it to. I have 2 that cannot tow anything (Miata and S-2000) and a bunch of older Saab sedans, and honestly none of these can tow very much without hurting the Aisin 5 speed autobox. I've towed loaded dual axle trailers, and towed a dollied Saab over Tehachapi/CA 58 and I felt it went way better than I feared (and it was hot). I don't want a big pickup with a turbodiesel. My biggest fear is leaving the 4 Runner at a remote trailhead to hike overnight and have the truck go missing. I can't believe all the comments I get, where people are wanting this truck. It is IMO a great combination of features, strong in just about everything but cut and thrust Big City rush hour commuting.

 

My V8 was an ‘03 as well

My limited is pretty much stock except for the Bilstein 5100s I threw on to replace the leaking XREAS system.

There is torque, I’ll give it that, but other than that it’s sluggish. My wife’s RAV4 feels quicker than it, but that’s via butt dyno and nothing scientific. That 2.5L and 8 speed combo is fantastic. The 4.0 and 5 speed? Eh. 1-2 is Jerky if you whomp on it, and I know the A750 can be buttery smooth when whomped on, the V8s proved it. Much better match for the 5 speed.

To your point, yeah this 5 speed is old. I’d be curious how the 4.0 behaves with say an 8 speed.

I run Michelin Defender LTXs and swear by them, a fantastic tire that’s worth its money.

My MPG averages between 17-18. I’ll see barely over 19 on good days with a tailwind. Towing the boat, with premium, I saw 15.6mpg with a tailwind, 14.5 without.

 

I am a huge BMW fan but there is zero chance I am going to trust a B58 offroad in a remote area after its had some run time. The engine has great performance but all the things attached to it are complex, hard to reach, and brittle after heat cycles.

But on the flip side the V35A is complete ass. So stick with something older? You don't need to hop to bad or inappropriate drivetrains just because its new.

 

Love the announcements of a goodbye post

 

Some want to go out with fanfare, others slip quietly out the back door...

 

I see these as a "hey, you're losing sight of your core customer" posts, really -aimed at the manufacturer or dealers.

The goodbye posts that really hurt, is when a company has gone kaput and is obviously not going to respond to the cry for help from old customers. The co-pilot is telling the pilot and bombardier "hey, was nice knowing ya", as he jumps out of the aircraft, and prepares to open the parachute.

Also, sometimes things happen to people. Save your old friends time and concern, as to what may have happened to you.

 

At age 72, if I were flexible enough to reach and pat myself on my back I would do so daily for purchasing my 2024 4Runner almost exactly one year ago.

 

Its because there's a 25% tariff on it. Take 25% off it's a pretty darn good deal.

 

I think Boris captured the sentiment best.

 

Im 38 and cant give myself a reach around either so dont bear yourself up about it.

 

@nova show us a pic or two of your new ride?

 

Ford quality = Over-priced Junk
Jeep quality = Over-priced Junk

 

I bought my 2024 at 59 years old because I wanted a vehicle with proven reliability to carry me through my final years. I'm fully confident my 4Runner will outlive me.

 

I ended up seeing Grenadier in person and was quite smitten by it. If I was in position to buy one, it would be really hard to walk away after seeing one in person.

I propose a Grenadier subforum here on this site, on the basis it’s the closest thing to a spiritual successor for the 5th gen (At least in the US market).

 

Lately, I’ve been judging vehicles in terms of how well they might work out with an LS swap lol.

I keep hearing the buzz that the BMW engine in the Grenadiers are supposed to be reliable, but I know nothing about these engines. Are these a recent design, or does it have history?

 

@Yobruhitsme

 

The B58 has been around for 10 years. They are used in BWM 3, 5 and 7 series as well as X3, X5, X7 and the Toyota Supra. Stock they range from around 320 HP to about 400 HP. The stock block, heads and rotating assembly adapt well to tuning and are known to reach about 1000 HP without exploding.

They enjoy a reputation as reliable and efficient, usually considered one of if not the best BMW engine ever. Their Achilles heal is BMWs obsession with using plastics in the engine bay, particularly in the cooling system. The B58 is a straight turbocharged 6 and its sibling is the B48 4 cylinder that enjoys similar reputation.

 

Well I’m not so sure about the spiritual successor part. I think the Grenadier’s solid front axle puts it more into Jeep territory.