Alright, let's be honest; who here is considering a 6th gen?

There will be tremendous pressure from CARB states led by California to not only keep raising CAFE targets but also fight tooth and nail to ban gas cars altogether. Any drastic move will be tied up in courts for years until at least congress changes hands if not the executive branch.

Recall that during Trump 1.0 he tried to merely freeze the CAFE target where it was, and it was not successful due to California & Co bringing lawsuits every step along the way. Ultimately the CARB States want to remove gasoline and diesel vehicles altogether and they have a lot of money from EV and battery industry lobby to litigate the cause.

I'm personally comfortable enough that it won't hurt me much, but it is amusing watching all the cash strapped commuters keep voting for people that want to tax the commuters even more for the privilege of commuting.

 

Unless government regulations change significantly, any V6 option we'd get would probably suck. Even the outgoing 1GR was considered underpowered by many. Imagine a heavier 4Runner with a smaller V6 with Even less torque.

 

I think V6 will only available with cylinder deactivation like Honda, GM, Dodge did.

I think now manufacturers like Mazda going even crazy 4cyl getting cylinder deactivation. (I could be wrong, but I thought I saw.)

 

I'd landed at "If I lost my beloved 5G Limited I'd probably replace it with a 6G Limited."

But the more I read about the new version the less I'm sure.

e.g. https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a64927647/2025-toyota-4runner-limited-test/ which finds that the new Limited rides worse, sounds worse, has worse brake feel, has a tranny that is no smoother despite 3 added gears, and has handling and acceleration that aren't meaningfully better.

And not even mentioned are the much-discussed reasons for doubting that the 6G is as durable and reliable as the 5G, such as its seemingly lighter duty suspension and drivetrain components. Or its extra dose of maddening tech and nannies.

In envisioning an event where I lost "Bertha" and had to leap to something new, I had comforted myself with the thought that the 6G frame is probably more rust resistant, there's actually usable cargo space behind the third row (yes it's quite small, but in the 5G it's practically a joke) and the MPG would be a little better. I'd also assumed it would be more modern in driving composure. But that now looks like a bad assumption. And everything else is just plain disappointing. The styling is overwrought. Interior space has been narrowed for driver and front passenger, despite the added outside width (and weight!) of the thing. And outward visibility took a hit.

So I'm at a loss. There really is nothing out there that combines 3 rows with BOF toughness, lots of cargo space despite reasonable exterior dimensions, decent comfort, excellent 4WD, high ground clearance and the reliability of Toyota's best products. The GX may come closest but stories about poor reliability, added to all the new complexity and idiotic nannies, make that seem awfully risky. Especially at those prices.

Sigh.

 

Toyota has seemingly the same issue as Ford, where they refused to license the ZF 8HP gearbox despite the success even Chryser/Ram/Jeep vehicles had with it for over 12 years now, never mind BMW and other companies have had. To this day the only transmission that comes close to the ZF transmissions is the GM 10L1000 and every other implementation of 8/9/10 speed gearboxes have been....eh at best.

 

Transmission talks remind me of my friends 2022 Highlander (could be 2023, can't remember now) was bought back by Toyota under lemon law for whining noise that they could not fix. (Looks like 6th gen 4runner have the same.)

As for ZFs, the Honda ZF9 is troublesome too. The shuddering was never able to fix.

 

How about a Tahoe for a 3 row body on frame vehicle?

 

If you really need a useable third row due to family accommodations, then a mini van is the practical choice. A third row in a 4runnner was only conceived so husbands could convince their wives that it was family friendly.

 

Their 5.3L v8 is having a ton of problems as well as their 6.2L v8 due to the variable displacement set up starving the lifters of oil, among other issues. I wouldn't touch those for a while. The 3.0L diesel is okay but a major overhaul is needed at 150k or so for the wet oil bath belt set up.

The Expedition would be cool if it came with the 5.0L Coyota but it only comes with the 3.5L V6 Turbo that still has cam phaser problems along side the occasional reports of turbos needing work done.

The most durable 3 row non-luxury BOF SUV used to be the v8 Sequoia but of course, we can't have that anymore unless you go used, and those owners know what they got. LOL.

 

The ZF 8HP I am referring to is an industry stalwart being very reliable ranging from the Wrangler to a heavier duty version in the Ram HD trucks, the 8HP has not much in common with the 9 speeds used in Hondas.

 

Not me! Not in the least!I'll drive my 2024 until both our wheels fall off (Age 72)

 

To address the original question: no, I am not. Mostly because I bought the 5G to keep forever, and have the luxury of more than one vehicle. Since my 20-year-old Ford Ranger finally got to be too much (and too little) for me, I got a 4G Hybrid Taco. And because I wanted the hybrid powertrain, which I believe Toyota has mastered, and because the 2.4L turbo is so proven in a variety of vehicles. The 5G 4R is about as old-fashioned and tried-and-true a vehicle that you up until recently could easily buy new, whereas this TNGA-F platform and powertrain are just great. So smooth, and the transitions between the two under regular conditions are almost unnoticeable. The power is there, but it is interesting to accustom yourself to the different personalities of a 4.0L v-6 with a 5-speed versus the iForceMax with an 8-speed that doesn't suck. If I didn't already own this 4Runner I would absolutely look at a 6G 4R.

 

I would highly consider trading up for the 6th gen if it had a normal V6. Looks wise I think they look great, Toyota has done a great job on that, but can't comment on interior as I'd have to see and feel that in person but I'm sure it's at least the same or better to a 5th gen. So far, the powertrain kills the whole deal for me, and seeing that they will never offer a V6 for it, I shall keep my 5th gen forever which will outlast any 6th gen in a couple decades!

 

Government regulations ARE significantly changing. Already you have V8 hemis getting brought back, more of that will be happening as consumers do not want compliance 4 cylinder turbo engines that are being offered.

Given a choice between 4Runner with V8 that delivers 16MPG and turbo I4 that delivers 21 MPG which one would you chose? I know I would pick V8 even if I had to pay more for it. If I cared about gas mileage I would have purchased hybrid Rav4, which delivers 40MPG.

 

The V8 Sequoia has got to be near the top of the list for one of the best vehicles ever made. Late 90’s to early 2000’s Suburbans and Tahoes were pretty good too.

 

A desperation move by Stellantis.

 

Not with the 6.2L L-87

 

A platinum Highlander is a better vehicle for riding around on the roads in practically every single way, by every single metric.
If you have passengers, the Highlander is further (miles) ahead of the new 6th gen 4R.
If you drive the roads a lot, the Highlander fuel mileage is further (miles) ahead of the new 6th gen 4R.
The interior is nicer (and measurably bigger)
The interior is quieter
The ride is as nice or better
The vantage point is as good or better (the 5th gen flat hood and tall dash has terrible line of sight out front for approach angle)
The price is way nice, a Limited and Platinum Highlander is over -$10,000 cheaper than a new Limited 4R and will be almost -$15,000 cheaper than a new Platinum 4R.
I personally own (2) 5th gens and i like the way they look when they are fixed up but i made a sensible decision in 2017 and put my wife in a platinum Highlander. It was so much nicer vehicle for a family, especially having a kid or passengers in the back. Rear AC, rear lighting, rear map lighting for reading, usable 3rd row, WAY MORE rear leg room, WAY MORE rear foot room, you can actually put people back there and they be in comfort. The highlander is an overlooked vehicle IMO and for its price point in comparison to the new 4R its a bargain.

 

I daily drive a 2008 4R with the 4.0 single VVTi
A friend of mine daily drives a 2008 4R with the 4.7 2UZFE

We both basically have the same drive every day, we both have about the same mileage on our vehicles, we both run practically the same size tires. He gets better fuel mileage than me fairly easily and i drive like a paw'paw trying to get better fuel mileage. My past year i have not driven over 70mph on the highway, i literally drive the speed limit at tops, and i accelerate very slowly taking a mile to get to speed on the highway. I am currently about -1.5mpg behind him even though he has a bigger engine.
Make it make sense ?
He gets 20-21 driving sensibly and driving super soft footed he has seen 23
I am currently getting about 18.5-19 driving sensibly and i have seen as high as 22 on a crazy LONG 4 hour 55mph drive.
Why does my smaller engine, get worse fuel mileage than his bigger engine? I would love to have my vehicle with the 4.7 in it every day of the week.

 

Generally there’s a more clear factor when different engine options are close in economy like the GX and Borrego having an extra speed in the transmission to go with the V8.

All else equal, the V8 uses more fuel just from moving more metal around, but confounding factors could be:

Mods?
Equipment like 4WD?
Discrepancy in calculation method? (computer vs at the pump)
Tire weight and tread? (Higher load range AT’s vs same size highway tires could probably bridge that gap)
Hills? Traffic at time of travel?
Bad luck?

I’m just spitballing though.

There’s definitely something not accounted for especially since your experience is the opposite of Fuelly’s data which consistently has the V8 4th gen at ~14.5-15 MPG and the V6 4th gen at 16.6-17 MPG.

 

My 03 with the V8 got better gas mileage than my 2011 does with the V6, but the 11 is heavier.

 

The 2uzfe was tuned on 100% gasoline, there were no ethanol blends back then. If you run 100% gasoline in the 4R with v8 your fuel mileage rockets upward.
The numbers i claim above are with 100% gasoline. These older vehicles, the mileage tanks when you run regular ethanol blended gas.

 

The 1GRFE wasn't a spring chicken either so I'd expect similar percentage changes with both on 100% gasoline. Everything I've said still stands. If the V8 has 100% gasoline and the V6 is on E10, that is certainly another factor to add to the list.

 

I’m using 100% gasoline every tank
My fuel mileage tanks on e10 which is as high as e13 here. I’ll drop to 15-16 on that corn water

 

I thought Dodge was bringing back Hemis because they realized that nobody wants an EV muscle car.

As far as consumers not wanting turbo 4's; what are you basing that on? I would assume at least some consumers want more power and better fuel economy, which the 6th gen has.

Depends on if the turbo 4 has proven to be reliable, or problematic. If all else is equal, I'll take better fuel economy. If the 4 is known to have issues, I'll take the V8.

FWIW, my V8 4Runner got 17. But, we're never getting a V8 again, so it's kind of a moot point.

What about folks who care about fuel economy, towing, and off-road capability?

Say what?

Ethanol has been around since the 1970's.

Also, my V8 4Runner did fine on E10.

I can get better than this on 285's with full armor on E15. Actually, I can get better on my 295's if I take my time.

 

Sure, so offer both alongside each other, let those people buy the turbo 4s and offer the v6 at the same time to people who want the v6, let the consumers decide.

Since 2018, Jeep offers both turbo 4 and v6 in the Wrangler. The I4 Turbo hasn't had any major catastrophes, but Wrangler customers have shown a clear preference for the NA Pentastar to the extent that the V6 is still the volume engine. If Toyota offered the 1Gre and the Turbo 4 at the same time we would know what customers want, but that's not how Toyota does things, is it?

 

It was not widely used until after the 2008 fuel scare, after the 2008 fuel price hike is when Ethanol blended fuel started getting pushed down the line to the pumps. Prior to that everywhere you went had 100% fuel or at least here thats all you could get. And yes because of the oxygen sensors and the ECU tuning, the ECU is smart enough to change its fuel trims when you swap from 100% gas to ethanol blend. If you do so you will see a change in fuel mileage. The vehicle runs fine but the fuel mileage is typically about 12-18% different. The 100% fuel gets better fuel mileage in older vehicles that were originally tuned for 100% gas.

I have 285 LRE on 18" limited wheels

 

Of course. But Vehicles haven't been tuned for 100% gas in decades.

I'm really curious how you lose 12 to 18% fuel economy by using fuel that has about 3% less energy in it.

 

Does the Jeep 4 cylinder make more power and get better fuel economy than the V6 offered?

Toyota has been limiting options based on sales for decades. Nobody should be surprised by this.

 

Also, E10 has been the norm in my area since the mid '90's.