The only opinion that matters

toyota wanted to move away from kdss as it had too many problems long term. the side effect was that the new gen 4R is geared more toward on road aspects than the 5th gen was geared more toward off road aspects. sales wise most non informed people saw it as mostly a off road vehicle. toyota is trying to cater more to the on road people to get more sales this gen (imo)

personally having the avs in the tundra wasnt the best idea. for me i see the ride is more harsh than our 2018 tundra. from what i have heard more people like the avs in the tundra than not. i am one of the few that dont care for it in the tundra. i imagine it will be the same for the my 4R platinum when it gets here.

KDSS (Kinetic Dynamic Suspension System):

• Primary Function:
  Improves off-road performance by disconnecting the sway bar, allowing for greater wheel articulation and traction on rough terrain.
• Mechanism:
  The system uses a hydraulic system to disconnect the front and rear sway bars, allowing wheels to move independently.
• Benefits:
  Enhanced off-road traction, better ride comfort on uneven surfaces, and improved handling in off-road situations.
• Off-road focus:
  KDSS is specifically designed to enhance off-road performance.

AVS (Adaptive Variable Suspension):

• Primary Function:
  Enhances ride comfort and handling on a variety of road conditions by continuously adjusting damping.
• Mechanism:
  AVS uses sensors to monitor vehicle speed, steering input, and road conditions. Based on this data, the system adjusts the damping of the shocks on each wheel.
• Benefits:
  Improved ride comfort, better handling in corners, enhanced stability, and a smoother overall driving experience.
• Road focus:
  AVS is designed to optimize ride comfort and handling on various road surfaces.

 

IMHO wish Toyota kept it simple. Like;

1) only have kdss in front. So you get more articulation in front and still benefit more articulation in rear non kdss have.

2) have simple on/off button. So kdss owners can keep the sway bar free unless they are on highway. So kdss equipped 4Runner can enjoy the comfort as non kdss 4Runner has on forest roads,gravel or any trail road that you are just cruising.

3) Sub of point 1, when there is only front kdss shock aftermarket can easily can keep parts just front shock and bushing as that's the common wear and tear item. (I have only seen I think max 2 or 3 rear kdss leaks. Always it's the front shock that leaks.) Having aftermarket the part would be very cheap and no big deal just like swapping suspension, even easier than that.

 

I just purchased a new Limited IForce Max after trading in my 2013 Limited with 200K miles. My 2013 had KDSS and the new one has AVS. I had a leak in the KDSS and spent $1k replacing it, the only major repair in my ownership. My first impression of the new one was that it rode noticeably rougher but it was set to Sport+ mode. When set to Comfort it smoothed out considerably. It definitely has better acceleration and torque. Gas mileage initially was 14 but gradually rose to 21 on the first tank. Hopefully it will continue to improve. It has lots of bells & whistles and I'll be studying the manual for a while. Incidentally, I'm not a soccer dad. I live in the Ozark Mountains, down 2 miles of gravel roads and ford a river daily, sometimes at 2' deep. I have run LCs and Tacomas for many years and buy them for reliability in our rough conditions. I liked my previous Limited and decided to stick with it.

 

I think you had XREAS on your limited, KDSS was only on OR and I think Trail trims.

With the mode set to comfort how does it compare to your 2013? Perhaps some 17 or 18 inch wheels with taller sidewalls will help more.

 

You are correct, my bad. I did have XREAS suspension.

It's still a little early to tell but on the highway in Confort mode I couldn't tell a difference with my 2013. Still evaluating the off-road ride.

 

Front diff is the the same as 3rd gen Tacoma and 5th gen 4R. The 4th gen Taco broke it because the engine makes a lot more torque than before. Recall Toyota's fix was a PCM software update with a revised MTS algorithm to incur less driveline shock.

KDSS is worse for more serious off-roading. There you want either a disconnected swaybar or a softer swaybar (like the Currie Anti-rock) depending on the build and terrain.

 

I thought for sure you were gonna say "your wife!". I am sure she is disappointed.
I like his videos way better than most other internet yahoos.

 

I clicked in here wondering who the heck started a thread about my wife....

 

She was next to me when I created it. I quickly edited it to this when she looked away

 

I learned this the fun way!

KDSS is super cool for mild to moderate off-roading and maintaining good road manners. But, I'd probably skip it if I totaled mine and had to replace it.

 

Curious. Toyota/Lexus has been selling vehicles with KDSS for 20 years. How many failures that weren’t owner induced have you personally witnessed?

 

There's a KDSS 4Runner group if you like to join and read some of them from KDSS owners..

In this forum also I remember someone started something like KDSS beware or something like that.

 

Mia Khalifa

 

Davie504, or Charles Berthoud

 

Bumping the thread because it devolved into a heated debate about KDSS... smdh

Anyways, CCN is the best car youtube imo because of his experience and knowledge. But as a 5th gen ORP owner, he was the one that convinced me to get a 4Runner when we were shopping for a SUV... and now I see that aside from the loss if the 1GR-FE, the 6th gen is solid according to CCN. Hopefully tariffs don't impact too bad and maybe in a few years I'll get a 6th gen Limited and baby my 5th gen even more.

 

CCN was very specific in only recommending non-hybrid version of 6th Gen.

 

He's right. The hybrid doesn't make sense tbh.

 

Which makes the whole situation an exercise in comedy, where the Pro and Traihunter, as well as LC250, are all hybrid only. Meanwhile the ORPs are a whopping 25% more expensive than last gen which already saw significant increase between 2020 up to 2024, and the gas only drivetrain now has to make up 17.3% more real world gas mileage to be able to match the previous gen's range due to the 19 gallon fuel tank versus 23.

As far as the 2.4T, it seems to have a more promising start than the V35A, so it is hopeful long term, it and the 8 speed will be a user friendly powertrain but that, we won't know in the BOF application for some years to come.

 

That's one thing I didn't understand why the 5th gens went so much in price. So for comparison's sake, back in 2019 I was looking to get a 4R and I remember seeing ORP's go for $39k-$45k ish... and when I bought mine they were all $45k-$54k... I got lucky mine was $44k. I guess "mUh InFlAtIoN" and Toyota had to look after their poor shareholders.

Now, this is why I say the Limited is the best choice. I've seen some 6th gen Limiteds for sale for about the same price as 5th gen Limiteds were. So in reality they barely went up in price, if at all. The ORPs and Pros went up astronomically, so much so that they don't make sense.

That's why I agree with CCN so much, I think reliability will definitely come down to maintenance. Let's face it, these turbo engines are running hotter and under higher compression, ofc they will need more attention than the 1GR-FEs. I am sure Toyota says to do oil changes at 10k mile intervals just to keep the EPA happy.

 

Its so funny, i had a "leaking" piston from KDSS but i told the dealer i would wait and see it if it became an issue. 50k later no leaks and no issues. Seems a lot of people are overly KDSS sensitive. But it's got to go sooner or later i would assume.

 

Per toyota the limited starts at 59k for a 4wd model, so really about 62-65k with unavoidable options and destination charge. That represents a 7k or so increase over the 24 4wd limited, definitely a smaller percentage increase than the ORs and Pros.


If people can get a few k or more off then it would be a good value relatively speaing, no doubt. But in my area it's hard to find limited under 63k.

 

Tinkerer’s channel just put out a video on the LC250. The land cruisef does share a lot with the 4runner, so his video could be informative to folks who are curious about how it does as a 4x4.

 

It’s worth keeping in mind that 6th gen base-level limited trim is no longer equipped with a mechanically locking center diff in the transfer case. This means you really can’t call it a full-time 4wd transfer case anymore. Without a mechanical center locker, it will have similar capabilities to most road-biased crossovers with AWD. The center locker is included with additional option packages within the Limited trim.

It’s probably not a big deal for most limited owners, but it’s a significant loss in capability compared to 5th gen limiteds.

Tinkerers LC250 video is interesting because points out lots of unexpected/illogical mechanical and structural differences between the LC, Tacoma, and 4runner that didn’t exist before between 4runners, Prados, and Tacomas.

Point being, if the mechanical and structural aspects are important to you, you're going to need some heavy duty flow-charts and venn diagrams to sort it all out. You can’t assume the basic underpinnings are the same between trims/models. While this is par for the course with Wranglers, this amount of structural/mechanical differences didn’t exist between and within trim levels and between trim levels with 5th gens, not to mention between related LC and Lexus models.

It’s enough to confuse even buyers who care about these differences.

 

60k+ for a limited and have to pay extra for a center diff lock, that's some nickle and dime crap one might expect from Ford or Stellantis.

 

The things he pointed out are all very easily correctable things, heck the GX comes with a 21 gallon tank already, they could just standardize the real axle across the Taco/4R/LC250 ranges, and use the existing 4R underpin for a gas only version of the LC250, but Toyota most likely won't bother making any change. They dug their heel in last time around and made you buy a limited or pro if you wanted super duper advanced tech features like dusk sensing headlights.

 

One massive difference with this new platform that can’t be fixed is that the rear drag link and pnhard brackets welded to the frame (and likely much of the frame) is made of steel that is nearly half as thick as it used to be. No doubt this has good implications for absorbing impacts in traffic accidents, but I’d be more careful about winching or being winched in off road situations. I’m sure that’s not the only spot of the frame that’s gotten substantially thinner.

 

So Matt at Demolition Ranch?

 

This means long-term reliability will be up to the first owner, whom typically lease it for a few years and generally DGAF for as long as it still runs on the last day of lease. What could possibly go wrong...

 

Interesting to watch the two videos back to back.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDGAe8DOmck

 

The biggest issue i see is much wider than a new 6th gen, new tech, turbo, 25 speed transmission. lol

We have a major problem across all cars, even Toyota with QC and unproven components. We saw a massive decline in QC and reliability after 2019-2020, from parts not being available, quality/experience of labor forces decreasing and all the emissions strangling requirements. It's not a great time to buy if you are looking for long term reliability, it seems we are stuck with very tech heavy leasable vehicles that are owned under factory warranty (because you will definitely need the warranty) and returned for something new in 3 years.