Potential new owner. Toyota safety sense or no?

Thanks. My wife and I bought a 22 Limited barely 3 weeks ago and we're learning as we go.

 

It’s the Pre-Collision System (PCS/automatic braking) that automatically re-arms itself after you’ve disabled it. It does so every time you start the vehicle. Perhaps Toyota anticipated this gripe and for liability reasons they didn’t give us the opportunity to permanently disable it. But it is possible to lower its sensitivity. Since I lowered the sensitivity all the way down I haven’t heard a peep out of it.

 

Is this a ‘22+ feature? My runner has never braked for me, except when slowing during following with Adaptive Cruise.

 

Mine is a Limited and it's standard equipment. Not sure what other Trims may have the DRCC.

 

The PCS only applies the brakes if it thinks the driver has waited too long to step on the pedal. If yours has never activated itself, that’s a sign that you’re a good driver!

 

One TSS system not mentioned that I find handy on my '22 ORP is the Rear Cross Traffic Alert (RCTS). Works well in the grocery store/shopping mall and backing out of our driveway. Hate the LDA and turned it off. We're ok with other features. Yah it's nanny tech but it supposed to compliment good driving skills not replace them.

 

I don't have a problem with the TSS features, I have some turned off and others I leave on because it doesn't bother me. What shocked me was a couple of weeks ago I use the Adaptive cruise control to drive on up to Denver from Colorado Springs (about 50 miles, all highway) and when I got up to Denver I was at 23MPG for the trip! Granted most of my driving is around town and I'm lucky if I get 18.5MPG so maybe 23MPG on the highway is normal?

 

Nice, I can on occasion get 21+mpg on the highway and can get 23 if in high elevations. Usually cruse control is MPG killer unless its pretty flat.

 

I'm currently getting 20.5 around town. If there is a lot of stop and go, parking lots, traffic, idling at red lights etc, it drops to 18.5. I'm actually thrilled with the MPG as my Land Cruiser only got 12.5.

 

Ditto. I dislike anything that can control the car against my wishes. I don’t want a computer deciding when to apply the brakes or turn the steering wheel. Especially because these systems often activate when they shouldn’t. And sometimes don’t activate when they should. And more especially because these systems are usually connected to the internet and thus vulnerable to being used against you.

Having said that, it’s hard to be too critical because one day they may save a life. And with more refinement they could become like airbags — almost always a benefit, only very rarely a detriment. I’d love for example to have automated driving advance enough that my elderly parents could drive with a high level of safety for years to come. But we’re not there yet.

In the end, I would not make this a high priority issue when choosing a used 4Runner. I’d get the one that looks like the best deal financially, eg will last the longest.

 

Sometimes it activates when there is zero danger. Fog can confuse it. Cars on the side of the road can confuse it. That creates more danger, not less.

On balance it may do more good than harm. But the likelihood of harm is higher than it should be IMO. These systems need to advance quite a bit before I’d be comfortable with them.

 

There appears to be a camera system in the 2022 (and later?) models that is not present (or not universally present) in the 2021 and earlier units. Visual detection errors in camera systems is a problem--Subarus have had an on-going problem with them. I don't know if that's a supplement or replacement to the RADAR system used in prior years.

Personally I wouldn't use any camera-only system, or one where the camera can override RADAR/LIDAR except when there is a detected failure in the RADAR/LIDAR system. Vision is too easy to confuse; a lot of really smart people have been working on this as far back as the mid-80s, and it remains one of the hardest problems to solve in automation systems design.

The DCC in the 2021 and prior years is great, although I think it shuts off below 30MPH (it can't be activated below 30). It doesn't seem to be able to do a full stop when following a vehicle that stops; it cuts out at ~30 and the driver has to brake. This is unlike other systems (e.g. BMW) that can go to full stop. Maybe I'm a better driver than I think

The DCC in the 2021 is great on long drives; we use it routinely. LDA is annoying but it probably is keeping us better centered on the road and more alert. Yes, we also have KDSS and like that, too

 

Alright that’s it! Dunno what monkey business you’re pulling but I’ve changed my password!

 

I’m logging off. Will return if and when my posts are no longer being hacked. It was amusing the first time but at a certain point it’s just wrong.

 

Congratulations! For that effort, sir, you win this week’s Bard of the Board Award!

​

 

As mentioned most of the nags can be turned off. What can't be turned off are about a half dozen types of beeps that drive me crazy. If I could only find that beeper under the hood...

 

Another excellent effort. Sadly this week’s prize has already been awarded. You may still be a contender for next week!

 

Methinks the mods are having a merry time today!

 

Allow me—
When you read Singleminded’s post no.42 above, it says:

Activated when danger is zero,
Fog and cars confuse it so.
More danger ensues, not less.
Do the benefits outweigh the stress?
Harm may be higher than we know,
Advance these systems, make them grow.
Until then, I'll be on the fence,
Comfort comes with more advancements.​

… but when you try to quote it, you get

Sometimes it activates when there is zero danger. Fog can confuse it. Cars on the side of the road can confuse it. That creates more danger, not less.

On balance it may do more good than harm. But the likelihood of harm is higher than it should be IMO. These systems need to advance quite a bit before I’d be comfortable with them.​

It’s as if the the forum software memorized a rough draft and uses that for the quote.

 

My seatbelt alarm beeps at me, But I found a great way to shut it off.

I buckle up.

 

Automatic braking is called PCS (pre collision system) in Toyota language. I think these are legally mandated on new vehicles by law if I recall. It is possible to turn it off completely, however you will have a warning light that stays on on the dash when it is off. The dynamic cruise control uses PCS sensor data (radar and front facing windshield camera) to help control speed when cruise control is on.

PCS also lets you set the sensitivity to three different levels. I’ve had it set to the middle level, and have had zero inappropriate activations. I had one appropriate activation at this level that beat me to the brake pedal by a tiny fraction of a second.

I would imagine the lowest PCS setting would be completely invisible, but it might only reduce the severity of an impact, and less likely to outright avoid an impact(compared to the highest sensivity).

The Lane Departure Alert can be disabled via dedicated hard button on the wheel, whenever you want, without a warning light on the dash.

Blind Spot Monitoring at least on my 18 highlander, is also controlled via hard button on the wheel like LDA.

One thing to keep in mind with new 4runners, the blind spot monitoring/cross-traffic alert sensors are on the corner area of the rear bumper cover. They can be damaged in small collisions or if you bump into something in your driveway. Sensor replacement and recalibration is very expensive.

 

I actually find the radar cruise control to be pretty good. It won't work start/stop but it's smooth maintaining speed. Does a great job of adjusting if somebody pulls out in front of me on the the highway. On my wife's 2019 Passport, the radar cruise control somehow slams brakes on so hard it nearly stands on its nose.

 

I lowered the sensitivity too. Was getting false alerts. Its all good now.
Good to periodically clean the sensors.

 

How do I turn these things off and KEEP them off? Also what about the annoying Amber lights?

 

Was actually looking forward to the safety sense features in my new 23 after having experienced the features in my wife’s 17 Outback. Sadly it isn’t even a comparison. Rear cross traffic? Sure it beeps as a vehicle approaches but then is totally silent when it stops directly behind me, not a help. Lane departure warning only engages when half (or more) of my truck is outside the lines, tried that one on purpose. Forward collision pre brake? It only beeps when you are about to hit something imminently, another test I tried. Kind of disappointing that the now 7 year old tech in her Outback surpasses the new TSS.

 

What's not to like about KDSS?

 

I drive a lot on rural 2 lane highways with limited passing opportunities that can have significant traffic. Adaptive cruise control is a blessing.

I drive rural highways at night. I want high beams at all times when I'm not meeting or closely following another vehicle. I love auto high beams.

Sometimes on those narrow 2 lane highways I have attention lapses. The lane departure warning is useful.

All of these can be turned off so what is the problem anyway?

 

Nothing as far as I'm concerned. But hang around long enough and you'll find plenty who'll say avoid it at all cost. Mostly by 4R owners who've never had it, but read about someone having had a problem once.

 

Buy a 2019 or earlier model year. I specifically bought mine to avoid the nanny TSS. Kind of like the ex-wife... always trying to tell me what to do. I fixed that.