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Front brakes squeal, until they get to temp. Brake shop is as confused as I am.

Discussion in '4th Gen 4Runners (2003-2009)' started by Cobra, Mar 13, 2023.

  1. Mar 13, 2023 at 5:16 PM
    #1
    Cobra

    Cobra [OP] New Member

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    Helloooo wiseheads,

    I did the 5th gen caliper upgrade on my back brakes, with new pads and rotors and steel brake lines. Everything was great. So when it came time to replace the front brakes, i did the same upgrade. Everything was fine for a few days, but then they started squealing. So I took them apart, regreased everything, and the squeal stopped. For a couple of days. I brought it to a brake shop to get their 2 cents, but they’re saying that nothing looks off except all the grease is gone.

    Any ideas on what could be going on? I’m using sil glyde (same as I used on the rear).
     
  2. Mar 13, 2023 at 6:09 PM
    #2
    xtremewlr

    xtremewlr New Member

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    Lots with more in the works
    2010-2015 5th gen front calipers and rotors? They are larger than the OEM 4th gen stuff and require that the front brake backing plates be trimmed to clear the rotors. If the shop didn't trim them, then they are likely contacting the rotors.

    5th gen rear calipers are the same as the OEM 4th gen calipers if I recall correctly. I've done the front calipers and rotors on mine and that's when I discovered that the backing plates need trimmed.

    Before trimming:
    [​IMG]

    After trimming:
    [​IMG]

    The lip that was cut off:
    [​IMG]

    Front rotor size difference. 4th gen on top, 5th gen on bottom:
    [​IMG]
     
  3. Mar 13, 2023 at 9:28 PM
    #3
    Cobra

    Cobra [OP] New Member

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    Yeah, 2012 front rotors. BREMBO 09B63411. I didn't trim anything when I installed them because I was able to spin them freely, with no points of contact. Does driving somehow make the backing plates contact the rotors? I guess the easy test is to pull everything off and look for signs of scraping on those plates. Thanks for the lead!

    Couple of things I don't think this would answer though:
    Why is the brake grease gone? Does that stuff just disappear?
    Why does the squealing stop after driving for a few minutes?
     
  4. Mar 14, 2023 at 12:42 PM
    #4
    CygnusX-4

    CygnusX-4 Member

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    If you're talking about grease where the pad contacts the caliper bracket, try a synthetic brake grease. It's thicker than sil glyde and lasts much longer. Temperature related squeaks are usually due to tolerance changes during expansion and contraction of dissimilar materials. Hopefully you didn't accidentally get grease on the friction surfaces..
     
  5. Mar 14, 2023 at 1:00 PM
    #5
    Cobra

    Cobra [OP] New Member

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    I was very careful not to get grease in the friction area. The brake shop’s “Toyota guy” came in today and his rec was to resurface the rotors (he said he noticed hot spots) and degrease the pads for $700. I politely declined haha. Treating the symptom without diagnosing the root cause seems like a waste of cash, plus I can grease pads and replace the rotors on my own for a fraction of that.

    I guess my next step is to take things apart, look at the back guard for signs of contact (if so, trim), grease everything with better lubricant and see if that fixes the issue then see about doing something about the rotors. Anything else I should keep an eye out for while I have the wheels off?
     
  6. Mar 14, 2023 at 3:07 PM
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    AuSeeker

    AuSeeker New Member

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    4th Gens came with either 319 MM front rotors or 338 MM front rotors, 5th Gens all have 338 MM front rotors, so if you had 338 MM front rotors on your 4th Gen you don't need to trim the backing plate to install 5th Gen rotors on it, if you had the 319 MM front rotor on you 4th Gen then yes you will have to trim the back plate or replace it for the larger backing plate, it would be obvious if you have the smaller backing plate.

    That being said the main difference in a 4th Gen 338 MM front rotor and a 5th Gen front rotor is the 5th Gen are slightly thicker, depending on brand 4th Gen front rotors are around 1.10" thick, 5th Gen front rotors are around 1.25" thick.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2023
    xtremewlr[QUOTED] likes this.
  7. Mar 14, 2023 at 3:10 PM
    #7
    Cobra

    Cobra [OP] New Member

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    ohhh! This is ringing a bell! I have the sport edition, which I believe does come with the larger rotors.

    I’m wondering if this is just a case of needing to use a better grease. I got a synthetic lube with PTFE and moly. I’m hoping it’s as simple as that!
     
  8. Mar 20, 2023 at 1:22 PM
    #8
    Cobra

    Cobra [OP] New Member

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    Okay. Regreasing everything with moly worked for a couple of days. Then the squeal came back. I'll reverse out my driveway SQUEAAAAL. Stop at the stop sign at the end of the street (20 ft away) SQUEEEAAAAAAL. And then the next stop sign 4 blocks away SQUEAAALLLL before it stops. Braking feels fine. Everything feels fine.

    So I took it to a mechanic my landlord recommended and he said everthing looks fine, except the front passenger rotor has a weird groove cut into it. Its maybe half a centimeter wide all along the outer edge. He resurfaced the rotors and put everything back together. It drove fine for a couple of days, but now the squeal is back.

    The mechanic says to just order a new rotor and he'll install it for free. Sounds good, especially since the other was damaged. But if feels like we're treating symptoms here without figuring out the actual cause. I'm worried that replacing the rotor will just lead to me having another broken rotor.

    I'm tempted to just clip off the squeal indicator and see if that fixes everything. My guess is maybe it's engaging for some reason when things are cold and carving into the rotor. Of course, if that were the case grease wouldn't make any difference . . . I'm really stumped on this one.

    Sounds similar to (without a resolution):
    After a day of work where my car sits parked for several hours in an outdoor lot, my 4Runner will release a piercing squeak when applying break pressure at low mph. I park in a very busy lot and it is quite embarrassing.
    I live in St Louis and it does get quite humid in the summers, it’s very noticeable after rain, and now that the cold months are here, it continues to persist.
    When I took it in for my 5k service, the service rep stated that it is normal under these conditions. This can’t be the case, I never hear other vehicles with it this bad and I’ve never personally had a vehicle do this.


    Is this really a common thing for the 5th gen calipers + pads? This is turning out to be the shittiest "upgrade" ever haha.
     
  9. Mar 20, 2023 at 1:30 PM
    #9
    Cobra

    Cobra [OP] New Member

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    Here’s a picture of the rotor, notice the groove on the outer edge.

    4DD97B14-885D-4A0C-A696-A312FBE0AB77.jpg
     
  10. Mar 20, 2023 at 1:40 PM
    #10
    xtremewlr

    xtremewlr New Member

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    There's gotta be something contacting the rotor. I'd remove the caliper and inspect the brake pads and the caliper itself to see if there is anything obvious. The rotor shouldn't have that groove in it at the edge.

    The only time I get any kind of noise from my 5th gen calipers/rotors is when I'm slowly backing into my garage. I know that it's being cause by the pads and is otherwise not an issue for my 4runner.
     
  11. Mar 20, 2023 at 2:41 PM
    #11
    TrueTexas

    TrueTexas New Member

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    If the grease quiets them for a bit then comes back, it's often the shim on the outside of the pad. Not sure if the pads you used have shins that come off or if they are molded on.

    Used CRC brake quiet on my previous truck and never heard it squeal again for the next 30k miles that I owned it. It doesn't wash or burn off. Put it between the outside of the pad and shim.

    https://www.crcindustries.com/products/disc-brake-quiet-4-fl-oz.html
     
  12. Mar 20, 2023 at 3:36 PM
    #12
    Cobra

    Cobra [OP] New Member

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    The pads do have those! I’ll give this a whirl!

    Not sure how this would of damaged the rotor though, unless that was some unrelated thing.
     
  13. Mar 20, 2023 at 6:55 PM
    #13
    TrueTexas

    TrueTexas New Member

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    Sometimes a rock or other foreign matter can get trapped in there and do a little damage. Any further problems with the rotor after having them resurfaced?
     
  14. Mar 20, 2023 at 7:43 PM
    #14
    Cobra

    Cobra [OP] New Member

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    Not so far, but we've only driven it a handful of times since then. If it's a foreign object, I'm sure it had to of come out during one of the recent teardowns. It's been taken apart by 2 mechanics and myself at this point haha. Nobody's noticed anything amiss, aside from the squeal and that groove.
     
  15. Mar 20, 2023 at 8:10 PM
    #15
    nimby

    nimby in the drink

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    Could you have a stuck caliper?
     
  16. Mar 20, 2023 at 8:11 PM
    #16
    Cobra

    Cobra [OP] New Member

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    Maybe? How do I test for that? Everything feels okay when I drive, aside from the squeals.
     
  17. Mar 20, 2023 at 8:17 PM
    #17
    nimby

    nimby in the drink

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    After getting to your destination, see if one rotor is a lot hotter than the other.

    Also, does your steering wheel pull one direction at all?
     
  18. Mar 20, 2023 at 8:21 PM
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    Cobra

    Cobra [OP] New Member

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    Sweet, I’ll check for this in the morning! Thank you. Haven’t noticed the wheel pulling, but I also haven’t been looking out for it.
     
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  19. Mar 23, 2023 at 11:30 AM
    #19
    Cobra

    Cobra [OP] New Member

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    Doesn't appear to be a stuck caliper. And I tried the @TrueTexas trick of putting CRC brake quiet between the shims and the pads (btw, the bottle says not to use it that way haha), but the squeal came back the next day.

    I think the next move is to clip off the squeal indicators from the pads and see if the screech goes away. I can't think of anything else besides maybe the rotor not being completely flush to the axle (but I'm sure that'd be noticeable in a ton of different ways, or one of the two mechanics who have looked at it would of called it out).
     
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