Confused: three 4Runners, three different experiences

Hi gents, James here. New guy, thanks for having me. Been lurking the forums ever since the following below happened. Was hoping to get your thoughts.

Please excuse my ignorance about terminologies and overall concepts, I am a 4Runner noob.

Booked a SUV rental for a trip with AVIS few months ago: got a 2019 (white) 4Runner TRD Off-Road. Loaded with options inside out. Blacked out badges, 17 inch wheels, roof rack, etc. Looked amazing. Got in the car, felt like a tank, loved it for the first few days but then, the more I drove it, the less I was convinced. Heavy tire noise (I guess that's what you get with off-road tires?), smell of "metal" when pushing it hard on manual mode (S3 to S4 to S5), steering wheel "hard" (not the easiest to turn). It was for a week, I enjoyed it.

A month later, another trip, I booked another SUV at the same place: got a 2021 (gray) 4Runner SR5 Premium. Big difference in driving experience. It was a lot more comfortable on the road. More composed. Normal tire noise but the steering wheel, was smoother, was still "hard" to make turns. Liked it but not as much as the previous 4Runner.

This week, one more trip, another 4Runner: 2022 (silver) 4Runner TRD Off-Road (not premium). Looks like a S5R. Nothing special like the first one - no blacked out anything, no roof rack. But, but, but, it drove DAY AND NIGHT different! Why? How? This is what I am trying to understand. Unbelievably comfortable on the road, barely noise tire, easy to turn. I am honestly shocked how good it is -- to the point where I decided to buy a 4Runner.

I tried hard to figure out why all 3 4Runners delivered such difference result but I have no answer. Hoping you could chime in your thoughts. Thank you in advance!

 

They’re basically the same vehicle. I’d guess the tires are the difference. Sounds like your first two vehicles had way under inflated tires. In my experience rental companies are notorious for rarely checking tire pressure.

 

Tires? KDSS? I’ve never had an issue with tire noise and I run off road tires. Do you happen to remember what tires the OR had?

 

The description from the different 4Rs seem to be the look and trim. Are you able to share driving conditions, did any of the ORPs have KDSS as suaveflooder mentioned. Also, tires and perhaps miles. Normally rental companies rent out cars for a few years before they try to sell them. I’m surprised you received a 2019 a few months ago.

 

It's possible that the tires were the difference, as mentioned above.

Off road tires will be noisier, especially if they're under-inflated. Being under-inflated will also make the steering feel heavy.

The OR and SR5 share the same suspension (aside from those with KDSS), so ride quality should be the same.

 

I can't agree more with car rentals and tire pressure. In my case, it's always, and I mean always, over inflated. I understand the importance of proper pressure and always go to the nearest gas station to check and adjust to what it should be (by checking the sticker inside door).

 

Another thing that could make the steering feel heavier or lighter is alignment, specifically caster.

The one that had heavier steering could have had a higher caster numbers (as well as heavier A/T tires).

That combo can make it feel quite different.

Also, depending on the mileage of the 2019, it's possible they changed out the stock shocks and replaced them with some cheap alternative.

 

That is also my conclusion: tires. It could be KDSS but I don't know which, or if any, of the OR had it.

The first OR had much "grippier" tires. I only have this picture of the car:

https://imgur.com/a/bTAgT7T

The current rental I have (2nd OR) does not have "grippier" tires.

 

I am in the US northeast - Boston, MA.

Driving condition for rental 1 was mostly dry pavement, light rain. Trip to NYC with similar conditions.
Driving condition for rental 2 was the same + trip to Montreal with snow/ice.
Driving condition for rental 3 - same as 2.

How KDSS identified on an OR?

Tires, definitely. As I mentioned above, the first OR had grippier tires and I think contributed to the noise. All 3 rentals with more or less the same miles (between 20 and 30K). Just checked, the first one was a 2019 - agreed it's old for a rental but I am told by the rep I deal with at AVIS that they haven't bought cars in many years due to the pandemic. Anyway, it was a last minute thing: had booked a Tahoe at Boston Logan airport back from a trip but they had none and they let me chose amongst what they had. Turned out to be a great choice.

 

Good point. I had checked pressure but I think it was the type of tires.

Good to know OR and SR5 share the same.

 

Being a rental, I would say nothing was changed but who knows.

I am not familiar with caster but something was definitely different with the first OR.

Mileages was 27K on the 1st, 29K on the 2nd and 26K on current.

 

That rental that you showed a pic of has different wheels (and tires) than comes stock. So they have changed some things.

My guess is they got it used and someone else upgraded wheels and tires first. Could have done shocks as well.

 

Also, it's possible that it had been in a wreck and they picked it up cheap in an auction.

Perhaps that had something to do with the different parts and the way it handled.

 

Almost looks lifted/leveled.

 

I'm willing to bet the smooth quiet one had KDSS. I noticed that with mine as well. I believe that really thick sway bar quiets the ride down a bit. I noticed a night and day difference when I drove a non-KDSS model approaching turns on city pavement.

 

If that's the case (that it's been modified), then it settles it and would make perfect sense. I've been renting with the same AVIS for years and I remember the same rep telling me AVIS (nationwide) did buy used cars at some point - and maybe still does.

 

Yes, it did feel significantly higher than the 2nd and 3rd rental. My wife observed similarly - that the first rental was much higher.

 

There are some Toyota distributors that put those wheels and tires on the ORP. I did see that a lot when I was looking at a dealer in North Carolina. They would put the matte black sema style wheels and some other items. They would call it the XP Predator package and they even have it on their window stickers.

 

Good to know, thanks!

 

Good to know as well. It felt and looked all stock to me at first - mostly because I am a noob but the first OR felt significantly higher. After conversing with you gents here and connecting some dots (AVIS buying used cars), it could very well be that the first rental was modified as @nimby stated.

 

2021 (gray) 4Runner SR5 Premium. Big difference in driving experience. It was a lot more comfortable on the road.

4Runner: 2022 (silver) 4Runner TRD Off-Road (not premium). Looks like a S5R. Nothing special like the first one - no blacked out anything, no roof rack. But, but, but, it drove DAY AND NIGHT different! Why? How? This is what I am trying to understand. Unbelievably comfortable on the road

Based on these 2 comments I suspect these two 4Runners are non KDSS 4Runners, hence giving a softer ride with more softer sway bar. I too dislike KDSS ride as well. I don't want sport car feel. But not to a level that I hate. The stock softer suspension should help KDSS 4runners not to be hash.​

got a 2019 (white) 4Runner TRD Off-Road. Loaded with options inside out. Blacked out badges, 17 inch wheels, roof rack, etc. Looked amazing.
more I drove it, the less I was convinced. Heavy tire noise (I guess that's what you get with off-road tires?),

May be this is one with XP package where you get TRD Pro wheels with Nitto Ridge Grappler tires. It would be noisy and annoying. I know dealerships put SL rated 265/70R17 so atleast it won't ride horrible like Load E tires.
Even the less aggressive Nitto Terra Grappler which come on TRD Pro is noisy to my ears, but a loud TRD Pro exhaust kinda balance the noise. ​

smell of "metal" when pushing it hard on manual mode (S3 to S4 to S5)

I only know of using sequential mode is used to hold the gear on a down grade. So using S3 and expecting performance the engine would scream like mad as it cannot go higher speeds at 3rd gear. Again I may be using it wrong only on down grades to hold the gear. Will let more experienced folks to comment on that.​

Post #9 - How KDSS identified on an OR?

Very easy, here's screen captures from one of my videos.

1) look under front driver side bumper, you can see KDSS cylinder connected to sway bar
2) look under driver side door, you can see KDSS control valve part
3) look under rear driver side bumper, you can see KDSS cylinder connected to sway bar​

 

" shift" mode is mainly for towing. Its nice how you can keep it in s4 so it doesn't shift in 5th gear (overdrive).



Its not for racing around banging gears.

 

You're both right..

It can be used for towing, or any situation where you want to keep it out of higher gears, or for engine braking. I use it for towing, off-roading, driving through mountains, and I use it to lock out overdrive when I have my MT's on.

 

@FourRunz, if you noticed “hard steering”, did you have 4WD engaged at those times?

 

That white rental pictured appears to be lifted with 33s.

 

@kmeeg Cheers man! Appreciate the details.

 

Good to know. I have a bad habit of shifting down (to S3 of 4 depending on speed) just to gain speed quicker - bad habit. Will stick to "D".

 

It was on 2WD. Steering would get worse on 4WD, especially to maneuver in say a parking lot. Thinking about it, reversing while turning at low speed was quite tedious - there would be a strong mechanical resistance. I can only assume at this point, and thanks to the feedback I received here, that it was modified.

 

Can't beat my bad habit of shifting to N -> Rev it -> slam on to D..
But have never done it to any of my vehicles or the ones owned by my friends that I drive sometimes.

 

Personally, I prefer the simpler SR5 Premium.