1. Welcome to 4Runners.com!

    You are currently viewing as a guest! To get full-access, you need to register for a FREE account.

    As a registered member, you’ll be able to:
    • Participate in all 4Runner discussion topics
    • Transfer over your build thread from a different forum to this one
    • Communicate privately with other 4Runner owners from around the world
    • Post your own photos in our Members Gallery
    • Access all special features of the site

What is the future of gas?

Discussion in 'General 4Runner Talk' started by The last breed, Sep 15, 2021.

  1. Oct 22, 2021 at 8:34 PM
    #91
    ElectroBoy

    ElectroBoy Ad astra

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2020
    Member:
    #15823
    Messages:
    1,938
    Gender:
    Male
    Bay Area, CA
    Vehicle:
    2018 ORP
    Nope.
    Just isolated cases in remote areas.

    This incident from the article:
    “But one bold station along the Big Sur coast was charging $7.59 a gallon for regular unleaded this week and nearly $8.50 for premium.”

    I remember about 1995 a buddy went on a motorcycle trip along Big Sur and paid $4.50/ gallon. (Maybe that same station!). At the time Bay Area gas was under $2.00. We were all shocked at the time.

    BTW, San Francisco gas is usually the most expensive in the US. Even more than Honolulu. Right now in SF gas buddy reports the cheapest is $4.19, most expensive is $5.25.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2021
  2. Oct 22, 2021 at 9:28 PM
    #92
    The last breed

    The last breed [OP] New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2021
    Member:
    #23342
    Messages:
    1,742
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Muhammad
    Vehicle:
    Dying to get my hands on a 4Runner
    Everything is horribly expensive in that city called San Francisco. I spent four years over there, and finally I ran for my life. My studio in the least expensive part of San Francisco was $2,200 a month, and I once received a $400 parking ticket, yes, I'm not kidding, a $400 parking ticket.


    20190119_150242.jpg
     
    DrewMan, brownersd and Moon Landing like this.
  3. Oct 22, 2021 at 9:42 PM
    #93
    ElectroBoy

    ElectroBoy Ad astra

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2020
    Member:
    #15823
    Messages:
    1,938
    Gender:
    Male
    Bay Area, CA
    Vehicle:
    2018 ORP
    $400. Wow. I bet that taught you a lesson. o_O I’ve been there so many times the novelty has worn off. You can’t find parking even if you try. I’d usually take the BART train in and walk everywhere. But now since covid a crowded train is not such a good idea.
     
  4. Oct 22, 2021 at 9:45 PM
    #94
    The last breed

    The last breed [OP] New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2021
    Member:
    #23342
    Messages:
    1,742
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Muhammad
    Vehicle:
    Dying to get my hands on a 4Runner
    Sorry, typo, it was $288. I was stopped in a bus Zone
     
  5. Oct 23, 2021 at 12:08 AM
    #95
    GrantA

    GrantA Enjoying God’s creation

    Joined:
    May 25, 2020
    Member:
    #14533
    Messages:
    1,320
    Gender:
    Male
    North Carolina
    Vehicle:
    Fully locked 2020 SR5 Premium
    - GOBI roof rack and ladder - Westcott Design Rock sliders - M.O.R.E. Underbody Skid plates - Dual ARB air compressor & ARB single compressor - LED interior lighting - Ironman 2.0 meter awning and enclosure - Ironman winch with factor55 hook - Ironman foam cell pro suspension - Ironman recovery snatch rope - Ironman recovery traction boards - lilbscustomfab Hybrid Front Bumper - lilbscustomfab BMC - RRW RR7-H Hybrid Beadlock wheels - Nitto Trail Grapplers 285/75/17 M/T - 4.88 gears - ARB front air locker - ARB rear air locker - Hi-lift jack & mount - Sony aftermarket speakers - LASFIT External LED Light Conversion - Center console organizer - Glovebox organizer - ICS phone Mount holder - C4 rear bumper with dual swing arms - C4 gas skid plate - C4 rear diff skid plates
    Did you have an electric car and your battery die? ;)
     
    thermorex, brownersd, Roland and 3 others like this.
  6. Oct 23, 2021 at 12:25 AM
    #96
    The last breed

    The last breed [OP] New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2021
    Member:
    #23342
    Messages:
    1,742
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Muhammad
    Vehicle:
    Dying to get my hands on a 4Runner
    Lol no. I was dropping a friend, SFMTA enforcement took my license plate and sent me the $288 ticket in the mail, Photo as proof. You can't find those. SF hates cars lol
     
  7. Oct 23, 2021 at 2:11 AM
    #97
    mac1usa

    mac1usa New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2020
    Member:
    #17452
    Messages:
    2,028
    I don’t know I think some of these classics are going to make there way back like everything else.

    I will bet Uncle Buck would still be driving this classic Mercury lol.

    A8AE9338-9AB1-412D-BC99-83E73B94799F.jpg
     
  8. Oct 23, 2021 at 2:15 AM
    #98
    Moon Landing

    Moon Landing AFFTC 1967/68 Eddies Air Patch

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2021
    Member:
    #19563
    Messages:
    2,171
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Jer
    La Quinta, Ca. AKA "The Skillet"
    Vehicle:
    Moon Rock 4Runner
    Nam 68/69
    Around 2013/14 I remember paying in the high 5's for 87 octane on a scooter trip through Death Valley.
     
  9. Oct 23, 2021 at 7:45 AM
    #99
    LandCruiser

    LandCruiser I have Toyotas

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2021
    Member:
    #20965
    Messages:
    1,526
    Gender:
    Male
    East Bay Area
    Vehicle:
    5th Gen OG TE
    4.49 here. Gas on the PCH and in remote ass Central Valley has always been high.
     
  10. Oct 23, 2021 at 8:22 AM
    #100
    mac1usa

    mac1usa New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2020
    Member:
    #17452
    Messages:
    2,028
    Gasoline is just the start.

    Wait for home heating oil and natural gas to go home to heat homes this winter.
     
    thermorex and The last breed[OP] like this.
  11. Oct 23, 2021 at 8:33 AM
    #101
    Singleminded

    Singleminded New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2020
    Member:
    #15483
    Messages:
    1,724
    Vehicle:
    2020 4Runner Limited
    OEM LED foglights
    There are already multiple EVs that will get an 80 percent charge in only 15-20 minutes. This keeps improving. So does range. Lucid has been independently tested to get more than 500 miles on a charge. It all keeps getting better.

    What is still very much up in the air is the number and reliability of fast charging stations. We need way more in order to make EVs as reliable as ICE for long road trips. This is happening but it’s slow. Whereas the range and charging time issues are quickly becoming non-issues. New battery tech, already proven in principle and not fairy dust, will make this even better.

    So again, the charging infrastructure is the big challenge.

    As for the future of gas — thankfully there seems to be great progress on synthetic fuels that work without any engine modifications and are much greener than now, in some respects rivaling electric. So there’s reason to hope that ICE will be around a long time.

    Regardless, the point at which ICE looks stupid relative to EV, such that no one wants to buy your 4Runner, is many years away. Maybe not 20. Though maybe more. Certainly at least 5 or 10.

    EDIT: I think it’ll be about 5-7 years before I personally would consider an EV as my main driver. But I could see getting one sooner as a second or third car — keeping the 4Runner for sure. I suspect most people feel the same way, which is why there’d still be a good market for one of the epitomes of reliable and useful ICE vehicles. They’ll still be desirable at that time, if not for longer.

    As mentioned above, EV tech is advancing well and there are already very appealing options — let alone where we should be 5-plus years from now. So I’m not worried about range or charging speeds at that point. Or safety or reliability.

    Alas, what I’d really like to see then seems pretty unlikely: a sporty EV without the safety Nannies or Big Brother watching and manipulating me and my car over the internet.

    However, there is some small hope on this front. If battery tech advances enough, “crate” EV drivetrains could be available as drop-in replacements of ICE engines in older vehicles like the 4Runner. These already exist, but range is poor because it’s cost prohibitive to make the changes needed to squeeze a giant battery pack into such vehicles. But imagine if battery energy density etc improved to the point where a pack the size of your gas tank would be big enough to deliver good range. The engine compartment has more than enough room for a powerful electric motor and all the other tech you’d need. You just need a good place for the battery pack. And what better place in a converted ICE than its current gas tank.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2021
    nimby, ElectroBoy and Roland like this.
  12. Oct 23, 2021 at 3:19 PM
    #102
    thermorex

    thermorex New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2021
    Member:
    #22373
    Messages:
    105
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Name Redacted
    Swamp area
    Vehicle:
    2021 4Runner TRD PRO
    This is one of the best phrase said in this forum. We put our faith in God, not in other people. When we go back doing that, things will start changing.
     
    2Toys likes this.
  13. Oct 23, 2021 at 5:59 PM
    #103
    SR5 Limited

    SR5 Limited New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2018
    Member:
    #7180
    Messages:
    12,083
    Vehicle:
    1996 SR5 Limited
    Well, we got all new pumps at the gas station up the street. There’s “Nitro” signs up and everything. And it’s cheap. I haven’t got the balls to fill up there yet. Prob E-20. Not sure. When I fill up at one of my favorite gas stations, Exxon filled by a Sunoco truck. I can drive slower and my rings are seated.
     
  14. Oct 23, 2021 at 6:02 PM
    #104
    SR5 Limited

    SR5 Limited New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2018
    Member:
    #7180
    Messages:
    12,083
    Vehicle:
    1996 SR5 Limited
    I know they are making oil from natural gas. Maybe it’s a derivative of that. I think we save all most of the oil we produce?
     
  15. Oct 23, 2021 at 6:03 PM
    #105
    SR5 Limited

    SR5 Limited New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2018
    Member:
    #7180
    Messages:
    12,083
    Vehicle:
    1996 SR5 Limited
    Or they are making ethanol from silage?
     
  16. Oct 23, 2021 at 6:19 PM
    #106
    mac1usa

    mac1usa New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2020
    Member:
    #17452
    Messages:
    2,028
    There is a push for Higher ethanol content for sure. Here in SE Michigan good luck trying to find rec fuel or otherwise known as ethanol free.

    It is a PIA for boats for sure and anything with a carburetor for me. I need to get the gas pumped out of my boat next spring.

    For my lawn mower I buy fresh gas each month and stabilize. For my leaf and snow blower I use Tru fuel which is ethanol free. It’s pricey but I will say all my stuff starts and runs better with Tru fuel.
     
    SR5 Limited likes this.
  17. Oct 23, 2021 at 6:21 PM
    #107
    SR5 Limited

    SR5 Limited New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2018
    Member:
    #7180
    Messages:
    12,083
    Vehicle:
    1996 SR5 Limited
    I’ve never had a problem with ethanol fuels in any of my engines. It takes more to make power yes. Still have original fuel line on my boat (Teflon lined) for 25 years. Nylon lines in the Z28.
     
  18. Oct 23, 2021 at 7:17 PM
    #108
    fajitas21

    fajitas21 New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2016
    Member:
    #2395
    Messages:
    1,344
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Lee
    Collierville, TN
    Vehicle:
    2020 ORP
    Custom scratches
    Just to be clear, also not really meant to be religious either, more of a comment on how we are all screwups, and just because someone is "important" or achieved a celebrity status doesn't mean they are not flawed. The most concerning are the narcissists who believe they are indeed not flawed, and therefore do deserve to lead. We have category of leadership titled "The Incomplete Leader" and it's meant to serve as a reminder we must always strive to improve, that our work is never done, and that we will never know it all. Those mentioned above have either never learned that, or forgotten that.

    There's a ton of research of leadership approaches, and one of the more interesting theories involves the Psychodynamic Approach which (stated from author Northouse of Leadership - Theory and Practice - Sixth Edition) basically says there's a good bit of study that surmises narcissists and psychopaths make pretty good CEOs; because when it comes to being a ruthless business person, they often excel in the short term. Lay off 1000 people to save $4? No problem! However, the "lead by fear" approach has a limited lifetime before revolt because it's not a form of leadership, it's a form of management by fear. Another book, "Getting to Yes" by Fischer, Roger, et. al, mentions approaches to negotiation and that people assume anyone taking a position different than theirs is immediately against their position, but there's many times where this proves to not be true and people work against their own self interests and the interests of their fellows because both just never talked it out.

    It's in the gray areas people in power always live, and those who choose to follow always assume they know what the answers are.

    We are all flawed, some consider it weakness, others consider it inspiration to do better.

    But, back to sarcasm, I'll quote one of my all time favorite authors Douglas Adams, who mentioned in The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy:
    "Anyone capable of getting themselves elected in a position of power should on no account be allowed to lead."

    Also. Gas prices are crazy ya'll!
     
  19. Oct 23, 2021 at 7:20 PM
    #109
    SR5 Limited

    SR5 Limited New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2018
    Member:
    #7180
    Messages:
    12,083
    Vehicle:
    1996 SR5 Limited
    Well put! I’m still working on “defense mechanisms” I learned in my AA classes.
     
  20. Oct 23, 2021 at 8:55 PM
    #110
    ChessGuy

    ChessGuy New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2021
    Member:
    #23918
    Messages:
    549
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    LR
    Houston
    Vehicle:
    2020 TRD Pro / 2017 Tacoma TRD Pro
    Too many..... Performance: • Magnusum Supercharger • Gibson exhaust with dual black tip • Pedal Commander * PowerBrakes • Suspension – Old Man Emu BP-51 front and back with Medium load coils • Tires: AT3 Faulken Wildpeak – 285/70/17 • Wheels: Relations Race Wheels, RR7-H with -12 offset • Full roof rack and ladder by Westcott Design (removed the stock Yakima basket) • Molle storage panels by Rago fabrication • Front light brackets by Rago • Illuminator light bracket by Rago (roof rack location) Lights • Morimoto front and back with sequential signals • Morimoto fog lights and side mirrors with sequential signals • 40” Baja design light bar for roof rack • 20” S8 Baja design driving combo (winch location) • Squadron sport baja design ditch lights • S2 Chase lights by baja designs (mounted on roof) In the bay: • Odyssey 34-PC Battery • SDQH Aluminum billet battery terminals and bracket • Switch Pro 9100 with aluminum tray • Anytime front and back camera • ARB twin compressor Recovery & Protection: • Smittybilt X20 synthetic rope winch • Factor 55 fairlead and flatlink • Southern Style Off-road (SSO) low profile bumper • SSO stage 2 high clearance wings • Weekend warrior recovery kit by treaty oak • RCI – skid plates – entire vehicle + catalytic converter protection wings Interior: • Nano Ceramic IR – Avery Dennison Window tint – all windows • Several phone mounts • Upgraded Rear Hatch lift gate struts (ladder is heavy) • Boom blaster horn switch (featuring La cucaracha)
    They will continue to go high as electric vehicles will get cheaper and cheaper. However, gas driven vehicles will continue to outperform electric ones for quite sometime. At least I hope!
     
  21. Oct 24, 2021 at 1:55 AM
    #111
    Carrie

    Carrie New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2021
    Member:
    #22082
    Messages:
    13
    Gender:
    Female
    PA
    Vehicle:
    2021 SR5 Premium
    coming fast
     
  22. Oct 24, 2021 at 2:51 AM
    #112
    Spare Parts

    Spare Parts New Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2020
    Member:
    #14274
    Messages:
    2,316
    Gender:
    Male
    Southern Maine
    Vehicle:
    22 LR ORP
    Sherpa Crestone. 4X Innovations Sliders
  23. Oct 24, 2021 at 5:15 AM
    #113
    mac1usa

    mac1usa New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2020
    Member:
    #17452
    Messages:
    2,028
    Dealers and others will have to adapt with EVs also. There are a lot less moving parts and thus expected less maintenance on cars and service revenue for dealers and small shops.

    The kicker is when you need a battery replaced sticker shock! The average consumer is not going to want to pay a few thousand dollars for that maintenance. This will change whole dynamic again in used car market.

    Next after that is more of the self driving cars. There’s another ball game. I work in that industry. Imagine having a team focusing on simply how to prevent a terrorist group from remotely taking control of hundreds/thousands of cars on major US highway at rush hour. It is a real threat.

    We are just screwing ourselves again here in my opinion. You have to balance the cost/benefit and risks/rewards.
     
    ddnc599 likes this.
  24. Oct 24, 2021 at 11:09 AM
    #114
    Moon Landing

    Moon Landing AFFTC 1967/68 Eddies Air Patch

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2021
    Member:
    #19563
    Messages:
    2,171
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Jer
    La Quinta, Ca. AKA "The Skillet"
    Vehicle:
    Moon Rock 4Runner
    Nam 68/69
  25. Oct 24, 2021 at 11:27 AM
    #115
    Gumpus

    Gumpus New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2021
    Member:
    #19009
    Messages:
    119
  26. Oct 24, 2021 at 11:41 AM
    #116
    Moon Landing

    Moon Landing AFFTC 1967/68 Eddies Air Patch

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2021
    Member:
    #19563
    Messages:
    2,171
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Jer
    La Quinta, Ca. AKA "The Skillet"
    Vehicle:
    Moon Rock 4Runner
    Nam 68/69
  27. Oct 24, 2021 at 11:50 AM
    #117
    LandCruiser

    LandCruiser I have Toyotas

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2021
    Member:
    #20965
    Messages:
    1,526
    Gender:
    Male
    East Bay Area
    Vehicle:
    5th Gen OG TE
    EVs are being raced because they’re super fast, but they’re still substantially heavier than ICE and endurance events see them overheating. I don’t see that changing any time soon.
     
    thermorex likes this.
  28. Oct 24, 2021 at 2:56 PM
    #118
    fajitas21

    fajitas21 New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2016
    Member:
    #2395
    Messages:
    1,344
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Lee
    Collierville, TN
    Vehicle:
    2020 ORP
    Custom scratches
    This is one of the issues we'll see when we finally get some sweet trucks and SUVs to offroad. The batteries are very heavy, and while they are low in the vehicle for CoG reasons, mud, sand and soft ground doesn't care about CoG, it cares about weight and contact patch size.

    A 7000 lbs truck is gonna struggle more than a 5000 lb one.

    I'm really hoping that in addition to new battery chemistries which pack higher specific energy density, we also get lighter weight batteries. A really good example is going from Lead Acid to LiFePo4, it's about 4x denser and 2x lighter. More of that please.
     
    Roland likes this.
  29. Oct 24, 2021 at 3:17 PM
    #119
    BourbonNcigars

    BourbonNcigars New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2021
    Member:
    #23328
    Messages:
    85
    Gender:
    Male
    Either way, there's no sense in anyone fighting it. EV's are coming and before long that's all there will be. History has taught us that change always wins, whether it's for the greater good or not is irrelevant. As long as those in power benefit, that change will happen. The rest of us are just along for the ride.
     
  30. Oct 24, 2021 at 3:46 PM
    #120
    LandCruiser

    LandCruiser I have Toyotas

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2021
    Member:
    #20965
    Messages:
    1,526
    Gender:
    Male
    East Bay Area
    Vehicle:
    5th Gen OG TE
    I don’t have enough money to buy the 992 GT3. Just the GTS. I love NA ICE engines.
     

Products Discussed in

To Top