Hope your not under 30, cuz the future of cars is bleak, boring, and full of subscription services

I added that last one on, but subscription service business model is inevitable now that more vehicles are able to be updated through the air. Sucks, I feel like I am going to be forced to lose a hobby.

 

Scotty Kilmer's always talking about how cheap Chinese EVs are coming that are going to destroy Tesla and the other big manufacturers. If they really do come, then we might not have too much to worry about. The biggest concern is that since they're so cheap then maybe they might be viewed as even more disposable than current cars. However, once a cheap Chinese equivalent of a Mazda Miata or Toyota 86 comes about, that's it. Halfway decent EVs already outperform supercars. While these hypothetical cheap future cars may be locked down, you could hypothetically put in an aftermarket ECU. You can already do that nowadays with ICE cars. It may be even simpler with EVs since they're so simple.

Yeah, things are going to change. No more engines. No more some other things. But things have always changed. ICEs aren't what they used to be. When EVs take over, it's going to be a new era of stupid power. Look at what's going on in the RC car world. You can burn rubber in that like you wouldn't believe. One of the most powerful cars is literally called Infraction. Look at some of the borderline irresponsible things you can do with e-bikes. We're going to be fine. Well, as long as we don't crash.

Did you know that it's more efficient to send power to the rear wheels in EVs than the front wheels? Silver linings! Then again, that means we're going to have high school kids with their first cars driving rear wheel drive cars in the snow for the first time again...

 

I wouldn’t say forced to lose a hobby more like adapt and overcome and create a new hobby. We’ve known this era was coming for a long long time.

 

I'm with you, I do not see it as a good thing at all. All this electric Bs is just moving money around.. But I won't get into that. I just see so many shortcomings/limitations with the electric vehicles.

 

under 30 here and while i see plenty of friends getting tesla’s and EVs, i’m still not sold on it all and hate how the auto industry has made a big push towards it

guess i’ll just have to learn and adapt when time comes, but for now i’ll enjoy my 4runner

 

@Gamma Ray
Not really. They are now fully encrypted. Not that simple to break them keys (same reason there is no supercharger for the 2020+). And they will eventually break them, but these cars are all remotely connected to the manufacturer. Look up how Tesla is disabling the supercharging capabilities on these peeps that attempt to fix their own cars.
You will no longer own the car. It will be just a rental, almost with everything you have. No job, you might as well die, they will take it all back. You can’t even use Windows or Office without paying monthly or yearly, for crying out loud. Even the Peleton crap treadmill, you buy it for 4000$ and won’t run if you don’t pay 40$ a month. WTF !!
The industry will change a lot. And not for the good. You wanna bet the cars will not go any faster than the posted speed limit, automatically?

 

There has been a trend growing in all lines of business for "subscription" and SaaS (software as a service). I may be wrong, but I think satellite radio was one of the first subscription services that targeted automotive. I do fall into the demographic of this thread subject and I'm not a big fan of automotive subscription services (pay as you go for features, etc.). I base this opinion on all of the "software" problems I had on my last pickup, and could not imagine being even more frustrated at a automotive software service I was paying extra for.

 

You're not thinking big enough. I'm not talking about cracking the ECU. I'm talking about completely replacing it. It doesn't come without drawbacks, but the gains can be huge. I learned about this most recently watching the recent Sarah N Tuned videos on Youtube where she did a standalone ECU modification on her MR2. It'll be even easier with electric motors. People do it all the time with RCs.

And LOL at continuously paying for Office. I've been using Office 2003 at home for years and have no plans on stopping. Yes, I'm on Windows 10.

 

Windows.

lol

Do you guys still have aol email addresses as well?

 

MR2 is not today's technology. Today everything is connected and talks to every other component. I am thinking big enough. You would need to replace all electronics. In tesla's case, for example, good luck replacing the ECU. There is no ECU, there is no oil pressure, there is no tranny temperature, it is one closed system. Even if you are successful at such titanic task, the manufacturer would disable certain parts automatically, like fast charging, map updates, and so on. Think about your IP getting banned on this forum. No access to the dealer network, probably in cahoots with the insurance company, you would end up paying a harsh premium for running a non-certified part/vehicle, maybe even dropped all together.
You US guys better vote for local/state/federal politicians that will defend your right to repair, otherwise we will all be slaves in a cruel system.
Imagine all the nice things when some group hacks GM and sends a dead-switch to all vehicles on the road. Oh, the joy !

And running Office 2003 is simply not possible in today's office/company environments, Office 360 is backwards compatible with 2003/2007, however, trying to open a docx today will result in a bad user experience on your Office 2003.

 

This trend is soul crushing. It takes so much enjoyment out of having and driving cars. I so miss the days when driving was a really analog experience.

There was a time when most new technology actually improved the experience instead of diluting it. Electronic engine control and fuel injection were generally for the good, IMO -- they made things way more reliable and efficient without really diluting the driving experience. But most other "improvements" since then have been a killjoy. Electric power steering? A couple manufacturers did it well, but most just took the opportunity to completely remove any feel of the road through the steering wheel, apparently thinking that's what people wanted. I guess some people do want steering that feels like you're operating a computer joystick? Not me. I want to feel what I'm actually doing, which is dancing a couple hundred pounds of wheels, tires and linkage across physical surfaces with varying textures and levels of friction.

It then got to the point where robots were actually driving your car -- you were just operating the robots.The robots were between you and the rest of the car.

Then came active safety features, where the robots made driving decisions for themselves whether you liked it or not. Lane keep assist, for example.

Then came the connections to the Internet, so all these computer controlled systems can be manipulated by the car companies or governments or hackers sitting in front of computer screens thousands of miles away.

The 4Runner is one of the very few vehicles you can buy new that has not completely succumbed to these trends. But it's succumbed too much.

 

Like I said, drawbacks! But it's doable! For EVs, can your ECU make the extremely simple motor move and handle other basic functions? If so, you're going to get moving.

And good thing I'm not in an office environment But I can open docx. Microsoft released a compatibility update years ago.

 

So, you are saying that iOS on Apple can do everything that the Windows dinosaur can do now? Sad to say, iOS STILL cannot do everything Windows computers can do. In my work, as much as I would like to use an Apple machine, it simply is not possible. I hate Windows. But I don't have a choice.

 

Pay per use. $1 to roll down window. $2 to open trunk. $5 to start motor.

 

You should realize that 95% of the driving public wants just that. They want an easy driving vehicle that gets them from point A to point B reliably everyday if necessary with all the cool gadgets and tech it can carry. That is why the automotive industry is heading that way. Blame it on the public.

 

I don't think that is accurate in my opinion. It is the insurance companies that are dictating most of this.

 

Don’t give Scott clicks.

 

This is nonsense. And tired. Blah blah blah. The issue has been studied. There are signif net environmental benefits from EVs. Yes, that includes issues such as mining, battery life, etc etc. Not everyone is a moron. We all get that you have to figure in the sources of electricity yada yada yada.

Further, several legitimate remaining environmental concerns about EVs are being tackled. This includes reliance on rare earth elements. The technology continues to improve in ways to benefit both the buyer and the planet.

One other point, directly on topic for this thread: while the highly electrical and computerized nature of EVs has clearly facilitated the regrettable trend of robots driving our vehicles instead of us, of “ownership” and Right to Repair problems (and subscription services etc etc), there’s no technical reason it has to be this way.

Replacing an ICE motor with an electric motor, and a gas tank with a battery pack, does not necessitate making the vehicle into a rolling computer game. This has been proven by countless mods of old ICE vehicles into EVs.

I for one hope for enough advancement in battery tech that it will become practical to turn ICE vehicles like the 4Runner into practical EVs. That might be a couple decades away, but it isn’t out of the question.

 

Nowhere have I criticized anyone for buying an ICE vehicle, or told anyone they should buy an EV. And on this forum I have quite extensively described my reasons for not buying an EV yet, being honest about their limitations -- which are substantial at the present time. You seem pretty defensive about this. I'm simply correcting misinformation. When people blather on the way you did about EVs being bad for the environment, they are (wittingly or unwittingly) pushing a false narrative that makes it harder for people to make informed decisions. So that's why I responded.

PS, before you fly off the handle again you might consider your past history with the forum. I've seen posts of yours that the moderators mercifully deleted.

 

Ok, just one last post on this topic, since some people can't be reasoned with.

We all understand the purpose of your post about the environmental impacts of EVs. It wasn't to share some helpful info that most people don't know. Everyone knows that EVs aren't environmentally pure. The obvious purpose of your post was to misinform. To make it seem as though EVs are as bad as or worse than ICE. Maybe you actually believe that. But factually it's BS. So someone needed to correct the record.

Your subsequent post just showed that you're also inclined to be disingenuous.

 

Every pro EV argument:

Batteries are toxic shit, but in the future they won’t be.

Charging is slow, but in the future it won’t be.

The grid can’t handle mass EV usage, but in it future it will.

Green energy can’t keep up with mass EV usage, but in the future it will.

 

it’s okay.

The future will be magically green.

Don’t sweat the facts.

 

From a practical standpoint I've often looked at "what ifs" What if a winter event hits and you're stuck on the interstate for 10+ hours because two tractor trailers crashed into each other due to ice. Now you're stuck on the interstate with 1000s of other EVs and backed upped 20 miles, no exit for 25 miles. In a vehicle that must be recharged eventually, because the heater is going full blast so that you don't freeze. Once the wreck is cleared how do you get traffic going again if many, many vehicles are dead? How long does it take?

What if there is a hurricane evac and same thing happens? Has happened here in SC before.

I drive a lifted 4Runner ORP for the main reason that I never, never want to get trapped like that. Same reason I have food, water gas can ect always loaded in the back.

Technology is great...until it's not.

`just sayin.

 

I think that electricity has the same issues ICE did when they were new. Nowhere to fill up, no infrastructure, nobody to work on them, these were all problems we solved when we started out with gasoline engines. I have no reason to think humanity cant do it again with electricity.

And while it might be debatable about how beneficial EVs are for the environment short term, no one can deny that ICE are bad for the environment. My only issue with EVs is I can't get them with a manual transmission and that most EVs are new enough to have the things I hate about new cars (thick sidewalls, tech, connection to the internet, plastic headlamps, no bumpers)