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"Floating " feeling with '21 TRD.

Discussion in 'General 4Runner Talk' started by Ken2021, Jun 28, 2021.

  1. Jun 28, 2021 at 7:56 PM
    #1
    Ken2021

    Ken2021 [OP] New Member

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    I drove my ’98 4Runner for 22 years and never had an issue. Last March, I bought a 2021 4Runner TRD with a Lift Kit and it makes me a nervous wreck on the highway. It catches the wind more than I am used to and I have to correct my steering but I’ll get used to that. The bigger issue the unstable “floating” feeling that I get when I turn. It’s almost like I am driving on ice. Is that normal? Maybe I would feel better if I understood the cause. Thanks

    4runner.jpg
     
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  2. Jun 28, 2021 at 7:58 PM
    #2
    Foster1

    Foster1 New Member

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    Stock UCA? How much lift are you running? If it's on stock UCA's, that's probably your problem. They're maxed out on caster. Aftermarket ones will get you more caster and make the truck feel more stable.
     
    nimby, DRobs, RusPro17 and 2 others like this.
  3. Jun 28, 2021 at 8:32 PM
    #3
    Ken2021

    Ken2021 [OP] New Member

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    I had to look up what a caster is:) I bought it because it looked cool and I had such a good experience with the last one. It’s about 5 inches higher than my last one. I don’t know what a UCA is but I think it would be considered stock since it was from the dealership. Does it sound like something that could be adjusted?
     
  4. Jun 28, 2021 at 9:13 PM
    #4
    Foster1

    Foster1 New Member

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    Of course it's from the dealership. By that I mean they didn't think everything through and just made it look cool with no supporting mods. I'm guessing it's a spacer lift too. Nothing wrong with a spacer lift if you don't off-road. I agree that the truck does look really nice though.

    You're caster is probably already maxed out as that lift looks pretty high. You have the sticker sheet that shows you how much they lifted it? It would help to see if you have more room for adjustment. If you're maxed out already, you need new UCA's (upper control arms) to get caster at a good number. A quality brand at a good price are JBA UCA's.

    You could also try and tell the dealer about how it drives like trash. They might try and help you out. The least they could do is an alignment check so we could see your numbers. If you do go through with the dealer thing, don't pay for anything. Or at least ask us here first before you do.
     
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  5. Jun 29, 2021 at 4:33 AM
    #5
    DRobs

    DRobs New Member

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    Pinstripes, lots of em. Plus a couple dents.
    Another vote for aftermarket Upper Control Arms (UCA).

    I lifted my 19 with an Eibach Pro Truck Lift. One of the benefits of the Eibach is you don't necessarily need UCA's. I added SPC UCA's when I did my Body Mount Chop and 285 tires. I noted the steering significantly tightened up.

    Can you turn your front tires and stick your camera into the wheel well so we can see what front suspension you have?

    UCA.jpg
     
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  6. Jun 29, 2021 at 6:27 AM
    #6
    Sandbuster

    Sandbuster Breaking Wind

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    Power Commander, LED lights upgrade, Eibach Pro Truck Series suspension upgrade (front & rear), Airbags (rear), dash integrated trailer brake control, Body Armor front bumper, Smittybilt 10K winch
    For what it's worth when I switched from a F150 (4x4) to my 2019 TRD Off-Road it took quite a while for me to get used to the handling differences. The TRD was totally stock until I changed out the suspension with Eibach Pro Truck series with minimal lift. Can't say I noticed a real improvement in the handling, the 4runner just seems to be sensitive to steering (almost like oversteer) but in time I've gotten used to it. Yes, I had an alignment done right after the front/back suspension change and no I did not change the UCAs. In my case I think it was simply a matter of driving a totally different vehicle than what I was used to.
     
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  7. Jun 29, 2021 at 7:26 AM
    #7
    LandCruiser

    LandCruiser I have Toyotas

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    Even if it’s a midrange lift, half the time the dealer mechanics are in such a rush they don’t bother installing them correctly.

    Back in Colorado the reputable 4x4 shops I went to said people would bring them trucks Toyota dealerships lifted and the lifts weren’t installed properly, springs put in upside down, bolts not tightened, etc.
     
    Toy4X4, DRobs and SlvrSlug like this.
  8. Jun 29, 2021 at 11:23 AM
    #8
    PhantomTweak

    PhantomTweak New Member

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    None. Bone Stock. EXCEPT: Brushguard, tow hitch, both welded to the frame. It's good to have friends and a fully equipped garage!
    There's three settings to a front end alignment. Caster, Camber, and Toe-in. They must all be set properly to make the truck's steering work correctly.

    I am NOT a suspension kinda guy, at all. I know for sure what toe-in is, but I can never remember just which one the other two are.

    Any modification, like a lift, if a front end alignment isn't done, will affect the steering, usually not in a good way. Most tire and wheel shops can, and will, do a front end alignment. For a price, of course. And/or tell you what changes need to be made to your 4Runner to enable a proper front end alignment.

    Good luck to ya!
    Pat☺
     
  9. Jun 29, 2021 at 3:14 PM
    #9
    Dillusion

    Dillusion New Member

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    Just from the pic it look like the lift is cranked all the way up. Thats probably not helping either.

    A pic in the wheel well would help.
     
  10. Jun 29, 2021 at 5:35 PM
    #10
    Dillusion

    Dillusion New Member

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    Well I just looked at mine again and I take it back on being lifted excessively.
     
  11. Jun 29, 2021 at 6:52 PM
    #11
    wfxt

    wfxt Still figuring it out

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    Yeah I hate to say it, but it sounds like the dealership either didn't install it correctly to account for the significant lift, or they just maxxed it out without caring how it would handle. It's still a truck, but it shouldn't float around. Pics!

    Did you take it for a test drive before you purchased?

    Also, it seems like dealers are really taking advantage of the scarcity of these trucks to overcharge for Pros and even the rest of the lineup, especially if they can add a hefty markup for a customization that may not be the best.
     
  12. Jun 29, 2021 at 10:36 PM
    #12
    glwood54

    glwood54 Stop making me buy stuff!

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    Just guessing that you don't have KDSS...?
     
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  13. Jun 30, 2021 at 3:02 AM
    #13
    Toy4X4

    Toy4X4 New Member

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    20201222_095107[702]JBA UCA.jpg Welcome from Wisconsin! Floating... like on ice, is this the front end with a 'push' like feeling? Or is this the rear with a 'slip' type feeling? Either way, the amount of lift will have an effect on the feel of the ride. We have a 3"/2" spacer lift and the ride is good. We also put aftermarket upper control arms(UCA's) on to adjust the castor to where it feels more stable at higher speeds going down the road. An alignment is crucial after a vehicle has had any suspension work. The aftermarket UCA's allow for a caster adjustment that is more in the middle of the adjustment range instead of being 'maxed' out one way or another. Get alignment checked. The red pieces on the suspension are UCA's... on the pic.

    20201222_095107[702]JBA UCA.jpg
     
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  14. Jun 30, 2021 at 9:08 PM
    #14
    Ken2021

    Ken2021 [OP] New Member

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    This is the most helpful group and I am so grateful for the responses. It has more of a slip feeling like I am on ice. Another comparison would be like turning a grocery cart

    I took it on 3 test drives for about 30 minutes each but none of those were on the highway. Driving around residential streets felt exactly like my old 4Runner but I wasn’t going very fast. Here is a pic. I have an appointment at the dealership next Tuesday.

    Thanks again for all of your help


    lift.jpg
     

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  15. Jul 1, 2021 at 1:00 PM
    #15
    Foster1

    Foster1 New Member

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    Is that castle nut rusted to hell or is it some type of illusion?

    Anyways, looks like it's indeed the stock uca with a spacer lift, aka the dealership special. Talk to them and let us know how it goes.
     
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  16. Jul 1, 2021 at 1:05 PM
    #16
    Foster1

    Foster1 New Member

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    No kdss, can see the sway bar end links in the pic he just posted.
     
  17. Jul 1, 2021 at 1:31 PM
    #17
    kymira13

    kymira13 New Member

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    Yeah noticed that too, for a 2021.
     
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  18. Jul 1, 2021 at 2:07 PM
    #18
    glwood54

    glwood54 Stop making me buy stuff!

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    I asked my question prior to him posting the photo. I see that now.
     
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  19. Jul 1, 2021 at 2:26 PM
    #19
    LandCruiser

    LandCruiser I have Toyotas

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    There’s lots of rust in several places.
     
  20. Jul 1, 2021 at 2:30 PM
    #20
    Foster1

    Foster1 New Member

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    I can see now the way I worded my response sounded kind of rude. Not my intention. Was just answering your question.
     
  21. Jul 1, 2021 at 2:42 PM
    #21
    Foster1

    Foster1 New Member

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    That's crazy for a brand new truck. I think the rust area around the sway bark link is normal, the rest is worrying though. That castle nut is especially bad.

    OP we need some more pics in this area:

    20210701_143859.jpg
     
  22. Jul 1, 2021 at 2:50 PM
    #22
    Ken2021

    Ken2021 [OP] New Member

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    I don’t understand the technical stuff but it seems pretty clear that something is just not right. It’s in the garage and I work from home. Could something rust that much in 4 months?B6695C86-20DC-4AFA-8429-B7DF338D7F7A.jpg B6695C86-20DC-4AFA-8429-B7DF338D7F7A.jpg 82E18BF9-3C14-4BA0-91CA-1657D926151C.jpg
     

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    Last edited: Jul 2, 2021
  23. Jul 1, 2021 at 3:20 PM
    #23
    glwood54

    glwood54 Stop making me buy stuff!

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    No worries, all good.
     
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  24. Jul 1, 2021 at 3:23 PM
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    Charlievee

    Charlievee New Member

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    What kind of spacer lift is this? Never installed one, but that looks... Weird. Would hate to see what they charged for it.

    20210701_173255.jpg
     
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  25. Jul 1, 2021 at 3:41 PM
    #25
    Foster1

    Foster1 New Member

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    On second thought, looks like the rust around the sway bar link on the spindle is growing.

    That's a lot of rust for a 4 month old truck in my opinion. Most of it just surface and there's no need to worry about it besides it looking like crap.

    Here are the 2 parts that look concerning to me:

    20210701_153945.jpg
    20210701_153909.jpg
     
  26. Jul 1, 2021 at 4:01 PM
    #26
    Foster1

    Foster1 New Member

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    I'll try and explain it a little bit better. EDIT: Forgot to say, the rust has nothing to do with why your truck handles badly.

    So, what's circled in red is called a castle nut. There's also a pin in it. Yours looks pretty damn bad for a new truck. If you're going to be changing out the upper control arm, I would also get a new castle nut since you'll have to take it off to change UCA's anyways.

    [​IMG]


    In my opinion, the rest of the rust is fine. It's just surface rust that won't impact the integrity of the parts.

    20210701_155106.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2021
    Red_5 likes this.
  27. Jul 1, 2021 at 4:07 PM
    #27
    Kyblack76

    Kyblack76 New Member

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    UCA's, and old looking nuts to help with the top heavy "imma roll over !!!" feeling??

    Meh,.... Sorry but imho, .... your just not use to the 5th gen. New UCA's, arent going to help,.. the rig is top heavy, and with your bit of lift, just add's to it. Keep driving it... youll be just fine. Cheers.

    Edit- bet the world, you can dump money into it for days,... think rust on something will cure it..... it wont. Its a brick, a top heavy brick. And you added to that, with the "lift". Just drive it dude, you wont tip over. Promise. If you are "out of your mind scared" then sell it, and get something lower to the ground. And again, cheers.
    (dont blow money on bullshit,... i wouldnt,... i have plenty of stupid hobbies for that)
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2021
  28. Jul 1, 2021 at 6:32 PM
    #28
    DRobs

    DRobs New Member

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    Pinstripes, lots of em. Plus a couple dents.
    I somewhat agree with Kyblack76, you can get used to driving just about anything.

    However, I'm of the opinion that spacer lifts accentuate poor handling. I have PRG spacers + Bilstein shocks on my Nissan Frontier. The ride is horribly rough. Spacer lifts make the vehicle look taller, plus allow for larger tires, but your handling is still crap.

    With my 2019 OR (non-kdss) I too test drove it twice on suburban backstreets around the dealership. Once I bought it and drove it home on the hills / curves here in the Ozarks, I was like holy crap the body roll on this thing is horrible! I had to slow way down to make curves. Then the nosedive presented itself at stops.

    A little research, I learned that basically any good suspension lift that includes new springs & shocks (Dobinson, Eibach, Bilstein, Ironman, Kings, Icon, Foam-thingy) will improve the handling of a non-kdss 4Runner. After spending hours reading about Dobinson on the other board and hating their 1980's Miami Vice teal springs.

    I then read up on Eibach and ordered an Eibach Pro Truck Lift (4 Eibach Spring, 4 Eibach shocks). The handling is 100% better. I could take the crazy almost 360 degree curves we have here at speed. Body roll is gone and nose dive on braking is significantly reduced. I drove it that way for a good 35k miles. Just recently adding larger tires, UCA's, and a Body Mount Chop.

    As I mentioned above, with addition of aftermarket SPC UCA's (yours are stock by the way) the steering wheel feels tighter. Has less play in it and seems to return to center quicker. Downside of heavier larger mud terrain tires is... I now have to slow down some in the curves as the MT's don't hold the road as good as the AT's I had on previously.

    Bringing up another point what tires do you have on there?
    In my research of tires, I read lots of accounts of tires pulling to the right. I forget the brand but I eliminated them from my selection.
     
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  29. Jul 1, 2021 at 6:37 PM
    #29
    DRobs

    DRobs New Member

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    Pinstripes, lots of em. Plus a couple dents.
  30. Jul 1, 2021 at 6:50 PM
    #30
    LandCruiser

    LandCruiser I have Toyotas

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    A lot of WTF going on here.
     

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