‘14 at 100k mi - Suspension Refresh?

My 2014 Trail non KDSS just hit 100k miles. I’ve noticed, whether real or just mental, that it seems a lot more floatier and rides like an old Cadillac. More rocking on stopping and accelerating, and more body roll in turns. It’s smooth like riding on a cloud but doesn’t feel sure footed in case of an emergency maneuver.

I had the stock tires for 25k, then stock size C load KO2s for 50k, and now stock size P metric Michelin Defender LTXs for the last 25k miles.

None of the shocks are leaking and when I do the test of pushing the bumpers it seems to settle back to the neutral position pretty quick without a bunch of bobbing.

Do the OEM shocks deteriorate by 100k to feel looser before they start puking oil? Or am I just imagining it?

If they do need to be replaced is it best to go with OEM? Or should I use the opportunity to upgrade everything?

The stock coils don’t appear to have sagged. I measure hub to fender of 20” front, 22” rear. Maybe a quarter inch of driver side lean.

If I upgrade I want to keep a factory rake, or at least something more than level. I hate the reverse rake look and from time to time I load up for a family trip or pull a small utility trailer.

I don’t want a harsh jarring ride as this is my daily driver, work travel rig, and family mobile.

However, I would like a more firm, sure footed feel than it has right now. I do take the family off roading from time to time, up in the North GA mountains. Just day trips so no heavy loading.

As such I’m considering something to make it better for mild off roading and am even considering adding a slimline bumper and winch since we are solo every time.

I’m looking at a few options. I do not want to screw up the factory geometry and do not want UCAs. I want to do something and not think about it for another 100k miles.

1) OME 2883, 2895e on OME shocks.

2) Toytec 1.6” front coil, Eibach 1” Pro Truck rear coil on Eibach Pro Truck shocks.

3) Bilstein 6112 at 1.6”, Bilstein B12 rear coil, Bilstein 5160 rear shock.

4) Bilstein 4600 with OEM coils.

I would probably do another set of KO2s in either stock size or 255/75/17 C load.

What would you all recommend for a daily driver with no extra weight day to day? Will any of these be better than OEM? And do I even need to change at this point?

I realize it’s another can of worms but is a winch a wise and worthwhile investment? It would probably never get used but would be invaluable if I got the family stuck alone in a remote location with no overnight gear.

Finally, I plan to keep this truck for a long time and would just add another vehicle if this one becomes “too old” so I don’t want to do anything to lessen its longevity.

Thanks!

 

Yes, at 100k miles I would personally swap out the suspension. All your options listed besides the 4600’s will change the geometry of the vehicle. You could do 5100’s with stock coils on all four corners with the front set to 0”. Stock coils should be fine but that’s up to you to decide. Winch and bumper are good. You can run it with stock parts or no lift but you’ll have a lot of sag in the front, I’m guessing it’ll be over 100lbs with a slimline bumper and a winch.

 

It's time to change the stock shocks at 100k.

My opinion:

Option 2 and 3 will give you the best daily driver riding vehicle with plenty of capabilities offroad.

Option 2 will be less expensive but will still be a solid set-up.

If you like the stock height, you could scrub the coils and just get the Eibach shocks at all 4 corners.

 

I dunno, but, i have a 18 with 90k on it......... shit.

 

For clarification, I don’t love the stock height. I’d love a lift. What I want to avoid is fighting alignment issues and any additional wear from CV angles.

It seems anything under 2” would be good for this but that’s not a popular coil length. The OME and Toytec/Eibach are all I can find.

 

I think it's time for a suspension refresh. Honestly, I don't think shocks last longer than 60-70k, but that's just me. It also depends on the roads you drive on. 100k, definitely time. If they don't completely fail - and they typically don't - then they "wear out" over time, and just get worse and worse, and bouncier and bouncier. So go for as long as you feel comfortable, I guess lol.

Going with OEM would be super cheap - there are tons of OE shocks out there for sale with like a few thousand miles on them, for dirt cheap (lift take-offs). But that's just parts - who will install? If you're already out an install cost, the marginal increase in price for upgraded components seems much smaller.

My rear hub to fender is 22", stock. So it sounds like something is off there in your case. Do you have 3rd row seating, and if so, does that really make such a difference? My front is 20" like yours.

You need to decide on that winch and bumper before you choose coils, because it will matter. If you do end up with a winch and bumper, I would honestly just suggest the entire Eibach Pro-Truck lift kit.. because your added weight up front will bring the front lift down enough to where you will still have some rake, and the alignment shouldn't be too much trouble with factory LCA's. @DRobs has this setup, I believe.

If no bumper/winch:

Consider stock springs on Eibach Pro-Truck Sport shocks. You can then use those shocks for a ~1" lift up front to look like a TRD Pro.

Be weary of the OME rear springs, they are supposedly a bit harsh.

Don't get Bilstein 5160 if you don't want to worry about them. If you go with 6112's, I'd either get Bilstein 5100's rear, or go with a different brand such as FOX 2.0.

You can also look into Dobinsons. They make some low lift options. My thoughts are that they also ride on the harsh side though, from my research and what I've read. I have no personal experience riding on them, yet. Just passing on what I've read..

 

Sorry kouki, I meant 20" front, 22" rear. I fixed it in the OP.


I've spent a bunch of time on the phone with Slee and Toytec. They both really know their stuff.

The Toytec guy (Hugo) was very clear that they do not like mixing and matching springs with shocks that they have not personally tested. They have 1.6" and 2.5" front coils and 2" rear coils that they have tested on Bilstein 5100s. They have not tested them on the Eibachs so they can't recommend that combo until they do so.

He said their Boss Aluma 2.0 kit would be a good option but certainly pricey, and would require rebuilding/servicing at maybe 50k miles.

They have no other shocks in stock and no ETAs from Bilstein or Eibach. Hugo strongly recommended SPC UCAs on any lift over an inch if the end user wants to be able to get good caster for the best highway tracking manners.

I asked him out of all the options they offer, what would he recommend for the most robust "set and forget" for many years of service. He said absolutely OME.



I talked to a guy at Slee and he recommend their "low lift" 2883/2895e on Nitrochargers. I told the guy they don't have that listed as a "kit" on the website and he said they definitely need to fix it because it's a lift they do often on 5th Gen 4Runners and have great success with it.

He said the OME coils and shocks are designed to run together and offer what they call a "European tune" ride on the street, which is to say simply a good bit firmer ride than stock.

Regarding UCAs - He echo'd what Hugo at Toytec had said. That they're not technically "necessary" but they highly recommend them, again, for good highway manners. They also prefer SPCs.


So currently I have on order the OME 2883/2895e, Nitrochargers, 10mm OME rear trim spacer, SPC UCAs, and 5x BFG 255/75/17 C-Load tires.

I'm expecting delivery of everything next week and then will schedule the install with my local Toyota offroad shop.

 

Sounds good, and good luck! My only fear for you is with those rear OME coils. They are certainly a lot stiffer than the stock coils. For guys with added rear weight (bumper or hatch full of gear), I think they're good. But for an empty truck.. hmm. But you certainly won't be the only guy running them. Please report back and let us know what you think, once it's all setup! Even if you don't love them, the good news is that it is extremely easy and quick to swap rear coils out. An alignment technically would be required, though.

I also went with 2883's in the front, but on Eibach shocks, and opted to not change my UCA's. In fact, I went with the lower 2883's just so I wouldn't need to change UCA's. We shall see what my alignment says when the time comes...

So many choices when it comes to suspension components.. I hope you enjoy yours!

Cheers

 

Completely agree as I had 6112/5160 initially and just leveled the front with stock spring. It road handled a ton better but it was a harsher ride over bumps and the 5160s failed on the rear driver side at the connection to reservoir and shock in under 20k miles in mostly highway driving. I would also suggest 5100s in rear.

I have Dobinsons in a 2"/1" lift with their springs also and the ride is night and day. It's composed and rides smoothly over bumps and not harsh at all in comparison to Bilstein.

Just another point of view based on personal experiences on my 4Runner.

 

kouki, I'm curious how the OME/Eibach combo turns out for you. Hugo at Toytec told me they strongly recommend against running the OME coils on any other brand shock than OME. I didn't quite follow the tech explanation but he said the springs and shocks would be fighting each other. His likened it to going hiking with a dress shoe on one foot and a running shoe on the other. Not quite sure.


I've had a change of plans due to parts availability and timeline. I have a big family trip coming up that was pushed up sooner than I expected. I won't have time to get all the OME parts in and installed, most importantly shaken down. I'm not comfortable with doing that big of a suspension swap and immediately heading out on a multi state trip.

I was able to luck into finding front and rear 5100s in stock which will allegedly be here today. For now the plan is to swap them on at .85 and then evaluate. Hopefully a quick plug and play and alignment. Are there any other wear items I need to check on the front end at this point?

I went ahead and got tires yesterday as well. Discount had the 255/75/17 KO2 but it looked significantly smaller in regards to the width/contact patch compared to the 265/70/17. My concern there is fully loaded vehicle at highway speed in the rain. So I just went with 5x 265/70/17s in C load like I had before.

I was wrong about my original shocks leaking by the way. When the wheels were off and up on the lift at Discount I took a look at the rears. Both bottom halves are 3/4 or more oil soaked. I guess the dust covers just concealed it from the ground.

 

I spoke with Toytec once, and they seemed to care about their customer, which is good. I can understand them not wanting to recommend things to a customer that they haven't personally tried.

They are correct in that one would want shocks and springs to somewhat "match." The shock needs to be strong enough to dampen the spring's movements. Also, the springs need to be strong enough so that the shocks aren't doing all the work alone.

Springs are simple. The spring rate is what to consider here, and I confirmed via ARB OME's specs that the rate on the 2883 is 590 ft/lbs.. which is basically the rate for most aftermarket 4Runner lift springs. Since this rate is basically the same as the Eibach spring's rate, I have no hesitation mixing the OME spring with the Eibach shock.

I would never put a stiff lift spring on an OE shock. I also don't think it's ideal to put a softer OE spring on the bottom perch of an aftermarket *performance* lift-shock.

But how much does it really matter? Consider that Eibach makes their Pro-Truck Sport shocks, and tells us that we can use them with either their lift springs ("660 ft/lbs") OR stock springs (550 ft/lbs). If the shocks were that sensitive.. surely we'd know, right? Wouldn't all the guys on 5100's be blowing out their shocks with OE springs?

ARB OME's rear springs, however, are quite stiff compared to many other options. So perhaps OME's rear shock valving is a bit stiffer so that they play more nicely together. I did notice that ARB OME offered differently valved shock options.. but I'm not sure exactly what all is offered for the 4Runner, since I wasn't super interested in twin-tube shocks for my 4Runner.

I did at least consider ARB OME Nitrocharger shocks at the last minute, but Wheeler's Off-Road (my vendor) wholeheartedly recommended the Eibach shocks over the ARB OME for a "softer ride," which is something I want. They said they have tons of guys running various springs on the Eibach shocks, and everyone seems happy with them. I don't think you could really go wrong with the ARB OME shocks, but I felt I would rather pay a little less cash for the Eibach's due to their potentially softer ride, and mono-tube design. Made in America is also never a bad thing.. and I've always liked Eibach, so wanted to support them.

At the end of the day, I quickly discovered that none of the "off the shelf" kits fit my wants/needs.. so I had to piece together my kit. It seems that off-road guys have been doing this for decades so it should be fine.

Anyway, I see you had to change plans. I hope those 5100's work well for you!

 

You have some numbers a little off in there.

Stock spring rate for the fronts is 590lbs (SR5 and OR).

Eibach Pro Truck Springs are somewhere around 660lbs.

Fox Pro shocks springs are 550lbs.

 

Kouki,

I thought the same as you. It seems like simple logic. Spring rate and length. However, the guy at Toytec said all the different springs do behave differently on the different brands of shocks and they don't recommend making your own combo.

I even specifically asked about Toytec's Eibach 1.6" spring coupled with the Eibach Pro Truck shock. The guy said they haven't tested that combo so they cannot recommend it at this point. It seemed like a perfect "kit" to me - 1" rear Eibach spring with 1.6" Toytec/Eibach front spring on Eibach Pro Truck shocks.

I don't know enough to override that advice so I just followed it.

My four 5100s are all here and I'm scheduled to have them installed Wednesday. 0.85" front setting, factory coils.

 

But according to whom? I've never personally tested the OE springs, so I don't know. All I can do is go off what I read... plus conjecture.

I did a little searching and see that one guy from Eibach says their springs are ~650. I can't argue with that, though it does seem a little high, considering that they seem to sag a fair bit with weight. On the other hand, the 2.75" lift is a fair bit, so perhaps the stiffer spring is how they achieve that.

Are spring rate testing machines, etc. certified? Are we even to know for sure that there is no room for error? Does it even matter? At the end of the day, personal experience may have the most power here. Which does give power to Toytec and their opinion.. but also to us here on the forums that take risks and report our feedback.

According to ARB USA, OE springs are 500. Also, I've read plenty claim that 590/600 is a "10% increase from factory rate." Granted, that would mean factory rate of ~550. So, my bad. I honestly was thinking 550 for stock, but ARB OME threw me off. Regardless, I don't think OE is 590. 6112's come with 600, Dobinsons are 590, and KINGS come with 550. There is no way, IMO, that KINGS is using a softer spring than stock while lifting.

I guess we don't *know,* but I think OE is 550/180.

 

Not to argue. Again, I appreciate how they choose to run their business, they are doing nothing wrong over there. They aren't engineers, so they don't try to act like one (like we do here on the forums lol). I get that they want happy customers only, so they are willing to lose a customer rather than take a risk on one. In most cases, that's totally what's up.

But just because a few small Toyota shops can't recommend a setup (yet), doesn't mean it isn't great. Of course, you do you. I am confident, based off reading others' personal experiences, that they will work just fine, and suspect that they'll fit my needs as well as possible. Like you, I wanted a mild lift, and sadly we don't have many options, so here I am. I'll certainly write a detailed review, one way or another, and share my results. Don't worry, I'll let y'all know if it sucks. I am picky, and not afraid or too financially restricted to swap to something else if this doesn't work. Eventually, I realized that suspension for the 4Runner was going to be more of an experience and learning process than a "set it and forget it" .. unless I am fortunate and this first, painstakingly decided upon setup works great!

Also:

 

On my wife’s 13 I swapped out the suspension with the Eibach Pro Stage 1 kit set at the lowest setting up front. It made the truck ride like a 4Runner should. No more nose dives and handles curves really well. We took it on a ride up to Colorado Springs and it did Great on the HWY. I was going with the 6112/5100 but really glad I went with the Eibach instead, besides it was much less $$$.

 

^ I think Eibach has a really great product out.. and it's selling like hot-cakes, as it should.

I just wish they used a slightly shorter spring up front! I can't blame them, really, because the kids want LIFT, so Eibach gave the max lift they could (within reason) for stock UCA's, to make most people happy.

I'm one of those guys that wants it to be *just right* and err on the side of reliability versus max lift, so if they had just made it with closer to a 2" lift, instead of 2.75" in the front, I'd be all over it!

The 2.75" also makes it too level for my tastes, but again, I realize that I'm in the minority there, too.

 

I understand totally and agree, if it was at 2.25” it would be perfect for us for ride height. Luckily it rides great with the stock UCA’s.

 

Eibach has quoted both stock spring rates and their aftermarket spring rates over in the other 4runner forum.

If you look at aftermarket replacement spring rates (for the stock weight) from any reputable vendor, the vast majority are in the 590 to 600lb range. Here’s a link showing OME springs for our trucks at 590lbs with no added weight.

 

https://view.publitas.com/arb-4x4-a...ional-application-catalogue-edition-36/page/1

So ARB OME is all about their suspension "handling more weight." They don't focus on a lift as much, per se, but of course a small lift is achieved with their springs. The reason I say that, is because ARB OME wouldn't claim they are building springs to handle more weight, but then make them the same rate as the factory springs, right?

Page 140 of that document shows where they spec the 2883, 2884, etc. springs for the 4Runner. Page 183 lists the rates for those springs as 590, and claims that the OE rate for the springs those replace is 500.

Do you know what Eibach claims the stock springs are? I personally think that different places get different rates when testing. Dobinsons claims that they tested the TRD Pro rear spring and says it's 220. Everyone else says that the rears are around 180.

Right. And since those are all aftermarket lift springs, I expect and assume that they are stiffer than the stock springs.. which means that the stock springs must be less than 590-600.

At the end of the day, I bet that the OME spring is very close to the Eibach in the way it performs. I think the Eibach is just a little longer, hence more lift.

 

The table below is from this thread: 4th gen info, yes. From all accounts, 5th gen front coils have remained the same spring rate, but rear coils might be different due to the 5th gen being heavier in the rear.

Eibach confirmed rates very close to these in another thread. I seem to remember them saying 589lb fronts and 200lb rear for the SR5 and OR stock specs.

These are 4x4 spring rates, btw.

 

I got the 5100s on and I’m extremely pleased. It’s a subtle change but looks just right.

It drives so much better. The nose dive and lateral sway is much improved. The truck feels much more planted and confident on the highway, yet more nimble. Firm, not stiff at all. I absolutely don’t get the posts of people saying the 5100s are too stiff. I actually wouldn’t mind it a bit firmer still. Coupled with the C load KO2s it’s just a nice solid ride.

I ended up with right at 1” of height increase up front. Drivers side lean is a bit under 1/2” front and rear.

This is how they should’ve come from the factory and I should’ve done this years ago.

 

Looks great man! Congrats!

 

My 5100s were trashed after 75k miles and I replaced them with icons.