Evaluating options - retaining stock height with upgraded suspension

Hey all, I'm new to the forum and new 4Runner owner. There is an overwhelming amount of information about lifts, wheels, and tires on this site (and many others). So, I'm going to ask a different question...

I've got a 2020 TRD Off Road (NO KDSS).

Let's say I want to retain the stock height and stock tire size (265/70R17 KO2) on stock wheels (+15 offset, I think?). But, I want to improve off-road capability and have less roll and dive of the stock suspension. I am okay with the stock height and the stock rake. The theory is I'll be towing some and lower center of gravity = better (also, it would stand to reason lower is better for every day driving?).

Would it be a waste of money to go to something like Icon Stage 2 or 3? Or, would I be just as good using some combination of Bilstein coilovers or just simply shocks?

Does staying at stock height somehow reduce the effectiveness of the upgraded suspension? If so, then maybe I shouldn't waste my money.

Thanks for any advice!

 

Either Bilstein or Eibach shocks/struts are a definite improvement over stock as far as reducing body roll and helping with cornering. Both can be set at stock height, and used with your oem springs. I pretty much did that, just put the fronts at .86 to help level the truck. I don't know if either of those companies offer stock height springs, though. But, I feel it's totally worth their cost to use with the stock springs, especially since they're so new (the oem springs, that is). Now Icon, on the other hand, you're talking some serious money just to stay at stock height...not to say that wouldn't improve the suspension, though.

 

In my opinion, buying coilovers that costs thousands simply for the ride is way overkill, but that’s just me. As stated above, some 5100’s or eibach would make more sense. The coilovers will ride nice, but they’re a performance component rather than a creature comfort. With that said, I’m sure a good chunk of people who spend thousands on their suspension rarely ever do use it for what it was designed to do.

 

Get Bilstein 5100’s all around with new springs for the front and call it a day for the stock ride height. Will improve handling and body roll without breaking the bank.

icon, king and fox would be overkill for your application IMO.

 

Wow, thanks for quick replies! I'm kinda seeing a theme here (LOL).

So, based on your replies, it sounds like I can definitely improve the "ride" as every day driver by going with Bilstein or Eibach, etc.. shocks. But, I'm also interested in improving off-road performance. Do these shock-only upgrades improve off-road capabilities?

I mean, I don't mind paying for something if it's worth it (for me... I know you guys can't tell me that). Dropping the kind of money necessary for Icon, Fox, etc... Would it still provide the same "off-road performance" at 0" as it does at 2.5" or 3"? Or, would that be crazy because without 33 or 34 inch tires there's no way to see the benefits??

 

I can only speak for king and Bilstein as I’ve had both and currently have kings. King supercedes Bilstein in every way. Offroad and onroad. You will see a difference. Rideheight doesn’t matter.

However my recommendation for you is to call Marie at Headstrong Off-Road and explain your budget and needs and she will set you right.

 

I was reading through tacomaworld and it seems like headstrong off-road is under new management, and marie no longer works so their past reputation may not be the same but who knows.

 

oh wow. Can you post the link to the post about her not there?

 

If you search “headstrong marie” and read through the different threads word on the street is that trail gear bought out headstrong.

https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/headstrong-experience.708457/

https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/when-will-the-6112s-be-available-again.709332/#post-25210572

 

That’s a huge bummer.

 

Agreed with the other posts.

Also, I would avoid Icon like the plague.

 

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is tires. I swapped to a heavier E load-rated tire and the ride firmed up and dive was significantly reduced. It didn't hurt my mpgs much, either. I like having a more heavily-constructed tire for extra margin of safety. Win-win.

By the way, the tire I went with is the Falken Wild Peak. Fantastic tires all the way around.

 

Oh really? That's interesting... why would you avoid Icon?

 

They are notorious for leaking.

 

Thanks for a new perspective! I hadn't heard that about E rated tires... in fact I'd been led to believe I need to avoid the E rated tires because of less MPG, ride, and make 4runner feel more sluggish?? I can live with the first two, but I don't want my 4Runner to feel sluggish. It's one reason I planned on staying with stock size tire size (265), to keep the weight per tire as close to stock as possible. The Wildpeaks are one of my top two choices (Also considering new Toyo Open Country).

P.S. Based on tiresize.com, it looks like the Wildpeak E in 265 weighs 53lbs and my stock highway Dunlop tire weighs 39lbs, so it would be about 13-14 lb difference per tire. Going with the SL Wildpeaks (46.5lb) would mean about 7-9 lb difference from stock and 6lb difference from E load. I have no idea what that means as far as ride, mpg, or sluggishness, but it's interesting to look at the numbers.

 

For the best ride quality and fuel economy, stick to a lighter tire. Unless you're going to be in the rocks a lot, I would recommend an SL tire. That said, I just drove from Wisconsin to Florida and back on E rated MT's and the ride didn't bother me, so it's all relative to personal preference.

I wouldn't count on tires to stiffen up the ride. If anything, the stiffer sidewall could be duplicated by running a little higher tire pressure.

For a stiffer ride, look at digressive valved shocks like Bilstein. I thought I heard that the Eibach kit was digressive but with an internal bypass, but I can't confirm that.

Progressive shocks will be softer, but still feel more controlled than the stock suspension. King and Fox are the 2 most popular progressive options, but there are some other very good options as well.

 

2021 TRD PRO FOX and call it a day.

Yes they will still provide off road performance in their superior dampening abilities, which translate to a more comfortable ride as well as less wear on the vehicle. The slight 1" front lift that comes with the TRD PRO suspension also improves approach angle and gives a little more clearance for the differential, under-body, etc.

One thing many don't realize is that, often, lifting the truck actually decreases off-road ability in that typically shock down-travel is reduced when up-travel is attained. Up-travel does mean more "flex" and lift does mean more clearance, but without additional down-travel added with "long-travel" shocks, you're actually trading some down-travel for up-travel, which means the wheel cannot extend down into a hole "carefully," rather that entire corner of the truck will "fall" down into the hole, which can be unnerving and cause the truck to sometimes balance on two wheels, opposite corners. Yes some shocks have more travel than stock but I am fairly sure that Bilstein 5100's, for example, will reduce down-travel when set at a higher perch.

So, yes, running better suspension at stock height does still give you some improvements. In fact, raising the height is really only a "trade-off" in many cases, with some advantages but also disadvantages.

 

As far as tires, you are on the right track. I have heavy 58 lb. tires and they are very noticeable. I struggle to maintain 16 MPG on the interstate. Mine are C load. I am happy with them for the off-road peace of mind, but honestly I think P rated tires would be better for me. Problem is, there aren't a lot of tire options in the 275 size, which is what I want to run on the 4Runner.

 

My Yokohamas are 295/70/17 and ~65# apiece and I managed up to 18-ish on the highway when I kept the speed down. At 80-85 MPH, I got 13.

 

Heard. Yeah, at ~65 MPH they do fine.. I can actually get about 18 MPG. But I drive "with the speed of traffic" lol on the interstate, so about 80 MPH around here..

It's funny because I've never had such an un-aerodynamic vehicle (yes I made that word up probably).. The 4Runner actually gets worse highway MPG than around town.

 

True! Anything above 70 and it goes down quick. I squeezed out 21+ at 65-70 MPH even with a roof rack when I had "normal" size tires. 60-70 seems to be the sweet spot.

I don't worry about what other drivers are doing when I'm not in a hurry. I just hang out in the right lane and go whatever speed I feel like.

EDIT: within reason. I don't go 50 MPH in a 70. But, I'll go 65 in a 70.

 

This is really helpful. You did a good job of explaining the trade-offs well.

 

Ordered these for our 2021 4runner, and am only going up 1.6" in the front and 1" in the back. Now if Wheelers can just get them in stock and ship them to me, I could let you know how they ride.

 

Look into Dobinson's too. They're very affordable for a super good quality product and they ride phenomenally. Just my $.02, take it or leave it!

 

Nothing wrong with 5100's, low maintenance better ride. It all depends on what you do. Be realistic about what you do though. Something I'm struggling with as we speak. My 04' Tacoma has a full custom Fox 2.5 setup from AccuTune Offroad, and I love it. BUT, I have to have the shocks rebuilt at a substantial cost in shipping every 50k Miles or so. Not great as she is my DD. But I wheel the shit out of it when I go to Moab or CO. My wife's less than a week old 4Runner will do some wheeling but I can't do what I do in my truck with a brand new 40K rig. I don't have the balls...yet. And I am a suspension snob because of the Fox's on my truck.

It's like shooting a gun with a custom trigger...you'll hate everything else even though there's nothing quite wrong with just smoothing out the factory components.