1. Welcome to 4Runners.com!

    You are currently viewing as a guest! To get full-access, you need to register for a FREE account.

    As a registered member, you’ll be able to:
    • Participate in all 4Runner discussion topics
    • Transfer over your build thread from a different forum to this one
    • Communicate privately with other 4Runner owners from around the world
    • Post your own photos in our Members Gallery
    • Access all special features of the site

LED vs halogen lights

Discussion in 'Lighting' started by mynameistory, Jun 4, 2020.

  1. Jun 4, 2020 at 10:50 AM
    #1
    mynameistory

    mynameistory [OP] New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2017
    Member:
    #5208
    Messages:
    1,139
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Tory
    Vehicle:
    The same 4Runner everyone has
    I'm about to ignore my own advice (don't let others tell you what you need), but I will make one concession: don't spend money on LED headlight bulbs. They're unequivocally a waste of money. I went down that road and am back to halogen.

    If you're interested in the reasons why, I recommend these threads made by a resident lighting engineer on Tacomaworld:

    https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/3rd-gen-hid-vs-led-vs-halogen-h11-projector-headlights.589465/

    Fog light replacements:
    https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/the-led-sae-j583-fog-pod-fog-light-review.554813/
     
    Singleminded, JamesBMac, Bob and 3 others like this.
  2. Jun 4, 2020 at 12:23 PM
    #2
    Area52

    Area52 New Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2018
    Member:
    #6127
    Messages:
    66
    Gender:
    Male
    PHX
    Vehicle:
    ‘20 SR5p
    Tory,
    Not to hijack this thread but quick question on this. I’ve seen many of your posts about LEDs and have read most of the linked threads. It sounds like LED bulbs aren’t the greatest and because the LED diode chip does not line up with the were the filament is on the halogen bulbs. This apparently causes uneven light spread from the projectors.
    I saw the new bulbs from Lasfit that are allegedly angled so the LED chips are in the exact spot of the halogen filament. Have you seen these and if so what are your thoughts?
     
  3. Jun 4, 2020 at 2:45 PM
    #3
    mynameistory

    mynameistory [OP] New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2017
    Member:
    #5208
    Messages:
    1,139
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Tory
    Vehicle:
    The same 4Runner everyone has
    Most of the LED bulb makers have been able to utilize the newest generation of very small and powerful emitter chips by Philips and Cree. They are also able to place them reasonably in the same location (X and Y dimension) as a halogen filament. However, the one thing they are unable to emulate is the thickness of a halogen filament. All headlight housings (reflector or projector) are designed to collect and focus light from this tiny point in space, to project it far down the road where you need it. By their nature, drop-in LED bulbs cannot occupy a small enough space, because they need room for the heatsink and copper circuitry between the emitters cannot approach zero thickness.

    Because of this, LED bulbs can actually be brighter than their normal halogen counterparts- but they can never match the correct focus. Focus is needed to "throw" the light far down the road. What results is a huge increase in foreground brightness, but a drastic dropoff in distance lighting. It looks great but you've considerably reduced your usable driving horizon and ability to react to objects down the road.

    There are precious few exceptions that manage to get close to the factory distance projection, and they are covered in that thread. None of them get close to a performance halogen or H9 halogen upgrade.

    HID bulb capsules can more correctly emulate a halogen filament, but those have their own problems- most seem to be an increase in glare above the cutoff, dazzling other drivers (a small amount of light is designed to "leak" above the cutoff to gently illuminate street signs, and HIDs can make this much too bright) and cheapo ballasts that often burn up and need replacing.

    As far as bang for your buck, you can't beat H9 halogen bulbs for the low beams, and 9011 for the highs. Both require a small tab trim to fit, but can be picked up at any auto parts store for $6-8 per bulb.
     
    7385 and nimby like this.
  4. Jun 6, 2020 at 2:33 AM
    #4
    Silverghost

    Silverghost New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2020
    Member:
    #13631
    Messages:
    106
    Gender:
    Male
    Vehicle:
    2020 venture
    Trd pro grill, Trd skid plate, trd led foglamps, trd exhaust, led hi and low beam headlights, full led interior lights, raptor grill lights, eibach lift kit, rsg sliders, falken wildpeak 275 tires, oem black hood scoop, tinted windows. More to come
    I bought led lights for low and high beam headlight revolution. A 100% better upgrade. The stock OEM bulbs are terrible. If you buy quality LED bulbs they work and look great but they are pretty pricey. Low beams were $150.00 and high beams $179.
     
  5. Jun 6, 2020 at 2:42 AM
    #5
    Silverghost

    Silverghost New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2020
    Member:
    #13631
    Messages:
    106
    Gender:
    Male
    Vehicle:
    2020 venture
    Trd pro grill, Trd skid plate, trd led foglamps, trd exhaust, led hi and low beam headlights, full led interior lights, raptor grill lights, eibach lift kit, rsg sliders, falken wildpeak 275 tires, oem black hood scoop, tinted windows. More to come
    I also put in the OEM led foglights that come on the pro. Big improvement and bolt in exactly like your current fog lights. Plus they have a slightly smoked lenses that looks pretty cool and priced very well. I think I paid around $90 for foglights from a toyota dealer online.
     
  6. Jun 6, 2020 at 3:12 AM
    #6
    mynameistory

    mynameistory [OP] New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2017
    Member:
    #5208
    Messages:
    1,139
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Tory
    Vehicle:
    The same 4Runner everyone has
    $320 is a lot of money to spend, only to be handily beaten by $8 performance halogen bulbs. I went down that road too.

    Again, the problem with drop-in LED bulbs isn't quality, or price, or brand names, etc. It's physics.

    OEM LED fogs are fine. The housings are designed and built for their LED light sources. It's only the Frankenstein drop-in bulbs (LED into halogen etc.) that should be avoided.
     
  7. Jun 6, 2020 at 4:43 AM
    #7
    Silverghost

    Silverghost New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2020
    Member:
    #13631
    Messages:
    106
    Gender:
    Male
    Vehicle:
    2020 venture
    Trd pro grill, Trd skid plate, trd led foglamps, trd exhaust, led hi and low beam headlights, full led interior lights, raptor grill lights, eibach lift kit, rsg sliders, falken wildpeak 275 tires, oem black hood scoop, tinted windows. More to come
    I get what your saying and dont disagree with you. However the purpose of lights are to help you see better at night and with the LED I have installed its 100 percent better than the OEM halogen bulbs. Not to mention that halogen bulbs get way to hot and over time discoloring of your headlamp lens starts turning yellow just from heat off bulbs. Also the white color is way cooler looking than that old yellow halogen bulb. Lol
     
  8. Jun 6, 2020 at 4:53 AM
    #8
    Silverghost

    Silverghost New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2020
    Member:
    #13631
    Messages:
    106
    Gender:
    Male
    Vehicle:
    2020 venture
    Trd pro grill, Trd skid plate, trd led foglamps, trd exhaust, led hi and low beam headlights, full led interior lights, raptor grill lights, eibach lift kit, rsg sliders, falken wildpeak 275 tires, oem black hood scoop, tinted windows. More to come
    I have actually changed every bulb in my 4runner to LED interior and exterior. Except turn signals. Much better light output and more modern look. Back up bulbs without a doubt are much better than any halogen bulb you can buy. There is no way to get the light output of a LED bulb in your reverse lights which also is much safer for you as well as other drivers seeing you.
     
  9. Jun 6, 2020 at 5:46 AM
    #9
    ForRun

    ForRun 4Runner

    Joined:
    May 25, 2019
    Member:
    #10019
    Messages:
    3,045
    Gender:
    Male
    Vehicle:
    2020 orp
    ^^^
    What he said. I went through $$$ until I realized the 8 buck H9s are best you can do short of a retrofit and then you need to cut the radiator bracket.
    I'm guessing you didn't get the gtr2 bulb from HR because they cost more...had them. Good light to bad every led bulb in a 4runner projector messes with people's eyes
     
    7385 likes this.
  10. Jun 6, 2020 at 7:54 AM
    #10
    Silverghost

    Silverghost New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2020
    Member:
    #13631
    Messages:
    106
    Gender:
    Male
    Vehicle:
    2020 venture
    Trd pro grill, Trd skid plate, trd led foglamps, trd exhaust, led hi and low beam headlights, full led interior lights, raptor grill lights, eibach lift kit, rsg sliders, falken wildpeak 275 tires, oem black hood scoop, tinted windows. More to come
    No I got Xenon Pro, that is what HR recommended to me. They fit perfect in dust cap and haven't had anyone flash lights at me yet. My 4runner is also lifted so I thought I might get flashed. The high beam is also Xenon pro which is made specific for 4runner so that you can run DRL at lower output through their included module. Very nice and happy with them. I purchased during a sale so prices may be slightly different.
     
  11. Jun 6, 2020 at 10:14 AM
    #11
    mynameistory

    mynameistory [OP] New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2017
    Member:
    #5208
    Messages:
    1,139
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Tory
    Vehicle:
    The same 4Runner everyone has
    So, the link I mentioned above specifically tested the XD LED bulbs. Here is the problem, and I need you to pay attention:
    [​IMG]
    See the two distance measurements? The XD bulbs seem brighter because they are brighter, for about the first couple dozen feet. After that, they taper off in brightness because they lack focus, not brightness. So what you've effectively done is brighten your near field vision, at the expense of projecting distance. Imagine riding a bicycle and only looking down at the front tire the entire time. That's what you're doing.

    The discoloration of headlight plastic has nothing to do with the heat of a halogen bulb. It's simply accumulated oxidation and UV exposure. You'll notice that you can polish your headlights on the outside to clear it up.

    A whiter light might look cooler, but short wavelength light scatters more in fog and inclement weather. Yellower light has longer wavelengths that penetrate that stuff better. Halogen bulbs also produce lots of infrared radiation, warming and melting any snow/ice buildup. LED headlights will ice up.
     
  12. Jun 6, 2020 at 10:17 AM
    #12
    mynameistory

    mynameistory [OP] New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2017
    Member:
    #5208
    Messages:
    1,139
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Tory
    Vehicle:
    The same 4Runner everyone has
    Interior bulbs are fine, as they are not required to project distances at all. On the backup bulbs, there are actually brighter halogen ones.
    [​IMG]

    See here: https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/gy6-35-hir-921-reverse-light-upgrade-vs-high-power-leds.474996/
     
    suaveflooder and 7385 like this.
  13. Jun 6, 2020 at 12:12 PM
    #13
    El General*****

    El General***** New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2020
    Member:
    #12780
    Messages:
    62
    Vehicle:
    2020 MGM ORP w/KDSS
    I went through 3 different sets of LEDs and the halogens weren't close to any of them. Brightness, field of vision, and distance were all increased over halogens. Even the DRL is brighter than the halogen headlight. It may be trial and error, but when you find the right one there is a HUGE difference. Wouldn't a better picture be from inside the vehicle looking out?
     
  14. Jun 6, 2020 at 1:16 PM
    #14
    Area52

    Area52 New Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2018
    Member:
    #6127
    Messages:
    66
    Gender:
    Male
    PHX
    Vehicle:
    ‘20 SR5p
    Seems there is no winning any argument with science. In this particular argument folks want to defend a financial decision, there are a ton of videos on YouTube comparing LED vs halogen and real world experience is supported because 99% of time we’re driving on mostly well light roads so no one will really be impacted by less throw of the LED light.
    I get the science of the focus and omnidirectional lighting being better in halogen projectors..it makes sense. I guess people just need to learn on their own ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    I bought Lasfit LED for my 2020 based on all those videos and reviews. Then I read all the science on Tacomaworld... Probably just made a $175 mistake and I’ll probably learn that in the next few months.
     
  15. Jun 6, 2020 at 1:36 PM
    #15
    Silverghost

    Silverghost New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2020
    Member:
    #13631
    Messages:
    106
    Gender:
    Male
    Vehicle:
    2020 venture
    Trd pro grill, Trd skid plate, trd led foglamps, trd exhaust, led hi and low beam headlights, full led interior lights, raptor grill lights, eibach lift kit, rsg sliders, falken wildpeak 275 tires, oem black hood scoop, tinted windows. More to come
    I'm not goin to disagree with scientific facts, but they tested the XD bulbs which.arent very good. You get what you pay for and I can tell you in fact my high beams shine a hell of alot farther than stock halogen. And one thing no one has mentioned yet is longevity. Quality LED bulbs not ones from Ebay or Amazon will outlast halogens bulbs 10x over. About the heat of bulb not discoloring the lenses is just not true. Look at many autos interior light lenses and you see burn holes thru them and they are burnt yellow, so u cant say that is not true to headlamps as well just takes longer to turn them because of plastic used in headlamps.
     
    This site contains affiliate links for which the site may be compensated.
    #15
  16. Jun 6, 2020 at 3:24 PM
    #16
    ForRun

    ForRun 4Runner

    Joined:
    May 25, 2019
    Member:
    #10019
    Messages:
    3,045
    Gender:
    Male
    Vehicle:
    2020 orp
    Here is go. The worst set was the $1,100.00 morimotos. What had the most usable light was GTR2 but they hurt people's eyes....bad. XV2 may have been nice but the light pattern was like a Dalmatian. Spotty all over the road and annoying
    I wasted my time and money on all of them and ended up with H9

    https://www.4runners.com/threads/headlight-comparison-before-and-after.11875/
     
    mynameistory[OP] and 7385 like this.
  17. Jun 6, 2020 at 3:44 PM
    #17
    Silverghost

    Silverghost New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2020
    Member:
    #13631
    Messages:
    106
    Gender:
    Male
    Vehicle:
    2020 venture
    Trd pro grill, Trd skid plate, trd led foglamps, trd exhaust, led hi and low beam headlights, full led interior lights, raptor grill lights, eibach lift kit, rsg sliders, falken wildpeak 275 tires, oem black hood scoop, tinted windows. More to come
    Man I would have looked at the xenon led pros. Excellent lights, top quality and as bright or brighter than gtr's. No modifications or grinding needed. Fit perfect and also fit inside low beam dust cap, not sure if gtr fit with dust cap. I wouldn't want to run lights without dust cap on and wires all zip tied everywhere. GTR is nice light I have used them before but the Xenon are made specifically for 4runner especially the high beam. Goodluck with them hope all goes well with install.
     
  18. Jun 7, 2020 at 7:08 AM
    #18
    Ironguy

    Ironguy New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2019
    Member:
    #12421
    Messages:
    6,228
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Ralph
    Bisbee AZ
    Vehicle:
    2020 Black 4Runner Venture 1967 FJ40 Land Cruiser
    New pine scent hanger, new sun shade
    Interesting discussion with great points all around. :bowdown:
     
  19. Jun 7, 2020 at 2:00 PM
    #19
    mynameistory

    mynameistory [OP] New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2017
    Member:
    #5208
    Messages:
    1,139
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Tory
    Vehicle:
    The same 4Runner everyone has
    @Bob I think it might be a good idea to migrate this lighting discussion into its own thread, rather than clogging up someone's intro thread. Is that possible?
     
    MI-FL off roader, Bob and 7385 like this.
  20. Jun 7, 2020 at 4:21 PM
    #20
    MI-FL off roader

    MI-FL off roader T4R Hobby/Addict

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2015
    Member:
    #878
    Messages:
    1,185
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Brett
    Merritt Island, FL
    Vehicle:
    03' SR5 Sport - 12' Limited
    Too many mods and too much money
    Copy Ghost Rider-Operation "Hi-Jack" Successful. Sorry couldn't resist. Poor guy hasn't been back in a week lol. Probably moved on.....
     
  21. Jun 8, 2020 at 6:49 AM
    #21
    mynameistory

    mynameistory [OP] New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2017
    Member:
    #5208
    Messages:
    1,139
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Tory
    Vehicle:
    The same 4Runner everyone has
    Just an FYI: the Xenon Pro bulbs you have are the same ones that are in the Tacomaworld test. XD stands for Xenon Depot, the company that distributes them. I had the same ones, as they were one of the few that could dim for DRL use. A nice bit of kit, and maybe they work fine in scattered high beam applications. But for low beam, they do not project as far as stock.
     
  22. Jul 13, 2020 at 6:38 PM
    #22
    mynameistory

    mynameistory [OP] New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2017
    Member:
    #5208
    Messages:
    1,139
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Tory
    Vehicle:
    The same 4Runner everyone has
  23. Jul 14, 2020 at 7:47 AM
    #23
    glwood54

    glwood54 Stop making me buy stuff!

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2019
    Member:
    #10964
    Messages:
    5,536
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Gary
    Albuquerque, NM
    Vehicle:
    2019 OR, KDSS, RSG sliders, Eibach shocks, 265/70 Falken Wildpeaks
  24. Jul 14, 2020 at 8:11 AM
    #24
    Singleminded

    Singleminded New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2020
    Member:
    #15483
    Messages:
    1,724
    Vehicle:
    2020 4Runner Limited
    OEM LED foglights
    Such great info here. A must read for anyone interested in lighting upgrades!
     
  25. Jul 14, 2020 at 9:18 AM
    #25
    mynameistory

    mynameistory [OP] New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2017
    Member:
    #5208
    Messages:
    1,139
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Tory
    Vehicle:
    The same 4Runner everyone has
    That's a picture from my 5th gen, so yes.
     
    7385 likes this.
  26. Sep 25, 2020 at 1:39 AM
    #26
    Trekker

    Trekker Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2020
    Member:
    #15732
    Messages:
    853
    Gender:
    Male
    Vehicle:
    1997 3rz 5spd
    I just replaced the bulbs in my third gen. The former owner had put in a blue halogen (my guess is it was piaa), and I replaced it with a cheap silver star without the blue tint (also don't buy those from O'Reillys they charge 33$ for them and I found them at Walmart for 19$ after this). They are technically a lower end bulb but they look and work so much better. The blue filter removes a lot of light output and it narrows the beam as result. I prefer the warmer light anyway.
     
    mynameistory[OP] likes this.
  27. Sep 25, 2020 at 8:35 AM
    #27
    mynameistory

    mynameistory [OP] New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2017
    Member:
    #5208
    Messages:
    1,139
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Tory
    Vehicle:
    The same 4Runner everyone has
    This is true. Halogen bulbs that are tinted to be cooler have bulb coatings that reduce overall output.
     
  28. Jan 21, 2022 at 5:56 AM
    #28
    vasder

    vasder New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2022
    Member:
    #25251
    Messages:
    1
    Gender:
    Male
    Are there any lamps that do NOT spoil the eyes? I also have silver halogen bulbs installed and have been thinking for quite some time about whether I should change them. This discussion, for me is generally like a nightmare; I want to try absolutely all the options that were mentioned here, only to draw my own conclusions. In addition to quality, I also have a requirement for visual appeal to lamps. I have trouble seeing a bright light, and the only thing that doesn't bother me at the moment is smart light bulbs, lol. Hopefully, after this thread, I will still decide on the choice.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2022
  29. Feb 8, 2022 at 8:10 AM
    #29
    Vilcor

    Vilcor New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2022
    Member:
    #25558
    Messages:
    1
    Yes, perhaps, the LED lamps are a clear outsider in comparison with halogen. It seems to me that it's not even arguing here. Moreover, the chip of the LED lamps does not coincide with the board on Toyota. In general, the truth is a waste of money. You're absolutely right. By the way, as for the light bulbs, I decided to order them for the salon to change the interior slightly. I wanted to make a red backlight. I ordered with the help of the site https://www.amazon.com/smart-light-bulb-bulbs-color/dp/b0922q43ly/. I hope someone comes in handy if someone wants to do the same.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2022
  30. Feb 8, 2022 at 8:26 AM
    #30
    mynameistory

    mynameistory [OP] New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2017
    Member:
    #5208
    Messages:
    1,139
    Gender:
    Male
    First Name:
    Tory
    Vehicle:
    The same 4Runner everyone has
    @Bob can you clear these bots?
     
To Top