Looking at buying a new 4 Runner.

Hi - I’m helping my sister look at the 4 runner and she’s currently near the end of a lease on an Acura MDX. She is in the early stages and not sure which options she wants so she’ll do that research but does anyone have tips for best dealers in the southeast Pennsylvania area near king of Prussia? Are these basically selling for MSRP or is there room to negotiate? How is leasing vs buying? I’ve personally purchased an Acura and a Subaru and have my methods for finding the right dealers for those and was very active in those forums but I don’t know a ton about the Toyota world. Thanks.

 

Welcome

 

Welcome

 

Welcome from Wisconsin!

 

A good dealership would be Sloane Toyota of Malvern | 593 Lancaster Avenue, Malvern, PA 19355. I bought my 4runner and my wife's Rav4 from there. Sales people are willing to negotiate, service department is excellent. I have been going there for all my service needs. They will not do service that is not needed. If there is a problem, they will send a video explaining the issue for you to decided what to do.

 

Make sure you and your sister understand that unless you go with Limited trim, 4Runner is a rear wheel drive body on frame truck that cannot be put into 4WD on dry pavement.

That is, make sure she knows what 4WD is and how it is not at all like her AWD or FWD Acura MDX.

 

welcome

 

Welcome!

I second what Sin4R said. In inclement weather these are arguably worse and require more driver input than a AWD crossover type vehicle.

Since she already has a Honda, did she think about the pilot or the new passport?

If I didn't have a need for off-road capability, and was looking for an SUV of this size, the Passport would actually be my first pick. When you take off-road capability off the table, I think the Passport is actually a better overall package than the 4Runner.

 

Welcome! I would not be leasing a Toyota 4Runner. But this is such a long discussion to get into. Have her drive a Acura RDX and compare to the 4runner. My wife and I have both. But she loves her Acura. Always had Acuras. But don’t like driving my 4runner. She thinks it’s too big.

 

Before the 4runner, we were looking at a 2009/10 Acura MDX. The Acura was more comfortable, quieter, faster, better materials, more features, great handling and decent interior space. We bought the 4runner.

 

We've both had true 4WD vehicles before but it's been a while but we do understand you cannot use 4WD on dry pavement. She likes trucks - I'm not a big fan myself.

Inclement weather such as heavy snow? any reason you cannot use 4WD in snow? She doesn't like the Hondas/Acuras - it's just the car she's had (long story) and then continued with a new one because it was easier to roll into a new lease. Most of her driving would be regular everyday driving though other than ski trips to Vermont, she has very little use for 4WD/AWD.

I'm not a fan of leasing any vehicle personally though I did lease a Subaru from 2018-2021 which worked out well (dang COVID used car prices made me some money on that one). She doesn't want to go smaller to the RDX. She has 3 daughters and when she packs the car full for a trip the RDX would be difficult, I think. Doable, but difficult.

 

You can certainly use 4WD in the snow. The issue is you need to manually shift in and out of it as road conditions change, the 4Runner does not offer an automatic setting for it. As the road goes from snow covered to dry and back, one needs to shift in and out of 4WD, unlike an AWD vehicle that you can get in and just drive without thinking about it.

Before the 4R I had a Volvo XC70 AWD wagon. Between the too, I feel the Volvo was better on snowy roads up to about 8" of snow, with the 4Runner being better in deeper stuff.

 

I just took delivery of my black trd off road premium on july 10th. I traded in my 2020 tacoma trd sport with 30k miles. I purchased mine at Koch 33 Toyota, one of the biggest dealers In PA with the most inventory. I ordered mine mid April with only the Port installed options I wanted. Ask for Miguel if you decide to go there, mention my name Vanna. They are selling at MSRP, people are putting deposits down before they arrive to the dealer. If you’re interested just shot me a message and I can have him reach out to you.

Also some dealers will add on their own packages like paint protection and say you can’t remove it. For example Del Toyota had that when i reached out to them.

 

I have Limited, mainly because I wanted full-time 4WD so I don't have to bother with switching. Yes, you can switch modes with a regular 4WD but in city driving you will end up switching between modes a lot.

Also, comparing between 4Runner and Outback in ice and snow, both on winter tires, Outback with AWD does noticeably better. I yet to see deep enough snow for Outback to bottom out, but theoretically 4Runner can get through a higher snow (but at that point everything would be shut down anyways, as almost nobody would be able to get through) so I wouldn't be driving anyways.

4Runner traction control system is also not great when you get into 4-wheel slide on ice. Outback recognizes when that happens and help you regain traction, 4Runner traction control system just checked out completely when that happened to me, had me recover traction all by myself. Had I known about that shortcoming, I probably would have ended up with something else.

 

Honda has really good AWD engineering. I drove my Pilot 240,000 miles. Then got my 4runner SR5 because I want a truck body on frame-not a crossover SUV. Since 99% of my driving is pavement or dirt roads I seldom require 4H or 4L,
I do not live in snow belt, so the transition from slippery to dry is rare.
Have her drive all the candidate vehicles before final decision to purchase.
Also Honda /Accura AWD are much easier and cheaper to maintain than Toyota Limited or SR5 drive trains.

 

I wouldn’t exactly call the Limited drivetrain more expensive to maintain. My 03 was at 184k and all modes worked fine - never did a lick of maintenance on any of the drivetrain components aside from greasing the driveshaft zerks. Original fluid in everything.

For my 2011 I did do a drain and refill on everything when it hit 100k, but likely would’ve been fine without it. I’m at 161k now.

 

I am refering to the Toyota recommended service intervals, lube & labor costs. My Honda Pilot was FWD unless the rear wheels were called for by the computer. Drive shaft to unique rear differential was always turning. Rear diff. had clutch plates and electric solenoids the connect to rear axles as needed. It took a Honda fluid similar to ATF and changed on a schedule similar to tranny. So 3 drive train components-engine oil, tranny ATF and rear diff. fluid.
My SR5 has 5 components in drive train and I believe Limiteds have 6, with the same 5 as SR5 plus the middle torsen like diff.

 

Don’t overthink the 4WD vs AWD. I’m on my third 4Runner, all with 4WD. It takes about 5 seconds to switch back and forth, and if you forget and drive on dry pavement for a bit, it’s not like the thing is going to fall apart like a cartoon car. They regularly run 100-200K miles without issue.

I’ve driven them on snow and ice hundreds of times, including deep enough to darn near high center the vehicle. The only thing is that the stock tires suck on most models, because they aren’t M&S rated. If you have good tires, it’s a great vehicle, with excellent traction.

Now, driving in 2WD? Yeah, that’s an issue. Put it in 4WD, and drive sensibly and you’re fine. The only time I’ve ever turned on the MTS system for snow was when I was on a dirt road getting a Christmas tree, and drove into soft snow on the shoulder to park. It got me out like a champ. City driving on snowy pavement? No need for anything special beyond good tires, 4WD, and knowing what you’re doing.

But back to the original question: It’s simple, she should go drive one, or better yet two, with both the gas and hybrid engines, so she can compare the difference (the hybrid is hands-down the better option IMHO). The 4Runner drives more like a truck than a car, because it has body on frame construction. It’s higher, so going around curves at high speed is something you have to watch, and has a pretty wide turning radius: if you’re not careful you can find yourself driving over curbs when you turn, but if you do, well, the 4Runner can handle it , because it’s designed for off-road and utility use, vs an urban assault vehicle/crossover. Some like/want that, and others prefer more car-like features. No right or wrong in that, they’re just different. I go places where Outbacks are banned because they get stuck. But outbacks are much easier to drive and park in urban environments.

In the end, it’ll all depend on what she wants and likes.