Rear Fishtailing cornering mild snow

2022 TRD Sport Part time 4WD - Stock Tires Geolander G96B 245/60/20
Rear Wheel Drive

Twice fishtailed cornering last Winter. I suspected maybe the slim tires or the XREAS suspension.

So, I changed the Rear Tires - 245/60R20 Toyo Open Country A/T III 107T

Kept OEM Front Tires - 245/60R20 Geolander G96B

Thoughts ?

Would these be a good combination? Open to advice.

Trying to avoid the vibration/wobbling issues reported by some members.

 

Hard HELL NO

Same tires on all 4 corners.

 

This is a terrible idea. Fishtailing has NOTHING to do with the slim tires (245/60R20) and even less to do with XREAS suspension. Grip is a product of the contact patch. The Geolanders are an "all season" tire. That means they won't excel at anything, but are adequate for everything. The Toyos are an "all terrain" tire and have bigger lugs and more siping on the lugs. You are likely to get better traction on snow and ice. However, it all depends on your driving style. You can't expect any tire to hold grip if your mashing the accelerator around every corner like on dry pavement. You need to be more judicial with the throttle on slippery surfaces. Traction control and stability control should be engaging. Make sure they're both on. NEVER, and I mean NEVER mix tires if you can help it. I'm also confused as to what your 4Runner is. Is it 4WD? Did you only have it in 2WD when this occurred? If that's the case, then it's on you. Bottom line, get matching tires and maybe take a winter driving course. I actually can't believe the tire shop sold you two tires and mounted a mismatched set.

 

It was in 2WD when it occurred twice. But the sedan cars ahead and behind me didn't have those issues. It was only a slight bend. It was scary

Installed by a local road side tire store. They would install anything without questions

Wanted to experiment with those Toyos first. Planning on getting two more Toyos.

 

Gotta compare apples to apples. How do you know they weren't AWD or FWD? Also, you're driving a bigger heavier vehicle. If it was that slippery, you probably needed to be in 4WD. If you didn't loop it, traction and stability control probably did their job. It's amazing what the electrical, magic nannies can do to make up for lack of driving skill.

 

yeah. I agree with all others. Same 4 tire and make them the AT3s. I have AT3's all around in live in the snow belt. You have to remember that it sounds like you have a 2wd vehicle vs 4wd. If youre sliding around engage 4wd BUT i have the same issue - if I leave it in 2wd and go from a start , there is some slide. if it bothers me enough ill engage 4wd but usually i use it as a time to test my driving skills and scare the wife

 

If AT3 is still sliding in 2WD. That not so encouraging in comparison. There was no visible ice/snow on ground to justify switching to 4WD. That was one on my concerns. Wasn't speeding. See my dilemma now

 

The best snow performing A/T tire I had was GY Wrangler Duratrac. Even with them I have experienced sliding on ice while applying brakes or doing a turn in cold mornings, sometimes not very visible, the black ice. When the dashboard gives a reminder with that ice mark I try to keep remember that there could be places with ice, sometimes not very visible.

Me personally would never use mis-matching tires. Toyo Open Country A/T III are decent on snowy conditions and slightly better than tires I've used in past like BFG KO2 or Falken Wildpeak AT3W and for sure a superior upgrade from stock Geolander. But still be extra careful on colder mornings.

 

#1 NEVER mix-match tire types
#2 Slow down

You never stated what the conditions were at the time you fishtailed nor the speed you were driving at...and how tight were the turns you were trying to navigate? How much cargo/passengers were in the vehicle?

As others stated, (black) ice is your worst enemy irregardless of what tire type/size you are using...studs/chains are your only best friend. Still, slow the hell down. Winter driving is not a race you'd win trying to corner like it was summer.

 

I have found the VCS/TRAC to be very effective at preventing fish tailing or spinning out on slick roads.

 

I agree, VSC on the 4runner is really very good at catching oversteer. That said, I’ve noticed that VSC allows the back end to rotate ever so slightly before intervening. It lets you know that the 4runner is tail-happy by nature. Which makes sense, given rear wheel drive…especially if the weight distribution is neutral or tail heavy.

It’s fun to turn off VCS in parking lots when there’s a little snow on the ground lol. It’s not a bad idea to do this once in a while just to familiarize yourself with the natural limits of the 4runner.

 

First of all, why are you in 2WD on snow?

Second, those sedans are sre probably front wheel or all wheel drive.

 

- Probably Sedans with decent Michelin Defenders.

 

It’s a fair point that most front wheel drive sedans will not fishtail (oversteer) in almost any low-traction situation. They’ll push (understeer) through turns instead. That’s because they are usually significantly front-heavy. Also, the traction demands for the front tires include both steering and propulsion forces, which means they lose traction before rears tires.

The only sedans that are tail-happy in low traction surfaces are old rear-wheel drive american luxo-barges, or rear wheel drive sporty cars.

A 4runners in 2wd is just like a rear wheel drive car that has near 50/50 weight distribution. It’s just the nature of the 4runner to oversteer, and they might be even more prone to oversteer if carrying a load in the back.

In fact, when front wheel drive vehicles started to get popular, safety was a huge selling point, specifically because of their natural resistance to oversteer (even before VSC was a thing).

 

Full time 4WD is the tits in this situation.

 

Not any better than part time in 4WH.

 

Sounds like you should have bought a Limited with AWD. Even with my studded winter tires, it can fishtail when in 2HI. 4WD is much better, but not as good as AWD.

 

Was a Newbie decision. Lessons learnt.
Didn't want the Limited Chromes

 

Really?

 

Sure it is - in this situation. FT 4WD in H4F is not any better than PT 4WD in H4 - same. In this situation the original poster/driver said that there was no visible ice/snow on ground to justify switching to 4WD. But there was something slick they couldn't see - which caused them to fishtail when cars ahead/behind them did not. If there was no visible ice/snow on the road you wouldn't be driving around in H4 - you shouldn't be - and the original poster/driver said they were driving in 2WD. In this situation FT 4WD would have been better than a PT 4WD being driven in 2WD. But I am in full agreement with you that FT 4WD H4F is not any better than PT 4WD 4HI.

 

If it was slick he could/should have run 4WH.

 

My road has a lot of swale to it due to poor design and lots of heavy machinery and trucks traveling it regularly. I’ve slid sideways and been pulled off towards the shoulder in snow while going under 25 mph multiple times. This has happened in both my 4Runner and other AWD CUVs. Good winter tires help remediate the problem but don’t always prevent it 100%. And the type and depth of snow can also have a huge impact on how my vehicles behave in those conditions. But losing control like that is a scary feeling, even at slow speeds.

 

Yet the title of your post says
Rear Fishtailing cornering mild snow
Maybe you need to get your story straight. Which is it?

 

I don't think there is anything wrong with the truck.......

just sayin'

 

It's not my thread - the person who started it clearly said that there was no visible ice/snow on the ground to justify switching to 4WD. Clearly you could have conditions like that but it could be cold enough to have a frozen puddle somewhere. So you are saying in conditions like that you'd be driving around in H4 - just in case you hit some ice that you couldn't see? With FT 4WD, with the center diff unlocked, you are driving around in H4 and the center diff allows the front and rear output shafts to turn at different speeds - so no drivetrain binding like you would have in H4 with a PT 4WD. So, yeah explain how it would be no better driving around like that instead of in 2WD with PT 4WD.

 

Thanks for taking the time to help a PT 4WD Newbie.

After chatting privately with some members.

It’s been decided to just get the last 2 matching AT3 to complete the set.

Cheers

This happened several days after mild snow fall. There was drier pavement than sparse crusted snow.

Might have been unseen black ice ( as pointed out by others)

Couldn’t engage 4WD in such situations.

 

Limited slip rear. That said, there really isn't any slip in my experience. They act more like a straight axle. I installed a 86 Supra limited slip carrier in my 97 4runner and it didn't have any slip either.

 

Very incorrect. The AWD system in the Limited utilizes a center differential, similar to that of a LC or Subaru. A good quality AWD system will always be better than 4WD on road. My Subaru would go father than my 4Runner if it were not for a lack of ground clearance.

 

What about tire pressure? Are you inflated to the recommended tire pressures (on the door jam sticker)? Or have you over-inflated them (to "get better mileage")?

 

hmmm ---- 38 - 40PSI hot