What do I need in addition to my supercharger?

I've got a special case.
I have a 2001 runner with a bit over 200k miles that I now only use for occasional towing and my annual hunting trip to Wyoming at altitudes from 6,000-10,000 feet that is about 3,000 miles round trip. I tow about 2,000 -3,000 pounds on the trip. It's this annual trip that causes me to write.
I bought a 2nd gen TRD supercharger 8 years ago for $1,000 and will be having it rebuilt by Superchargers Online. My truck engine/fuel is stock except that I installed cold air intake methanol injection years ago in preparation of a supercharger install and then life got in the way. I'm now ready to do it. Because I go offroad in the middle of nowhere, it is armored like an armadillo and lit up like a Christmas tree.

I only need some extra power at altitude, especially since I tow my gear pulling a 2,000-3,000 pound trailer in the mountains. I'm not seeking performance anywhere else I will only use the stock pulley and run it conservatively. Maximum longevity and a bit more power above 4,000 feet is what I'm after. That's what forced induction was made for.

So, with methanol injection, do I need any fuel mods given that I'm only after high altitude assistance and not maximum increases in hp and torque. I'm looking for minimalist, affordable and reliable. I drive my truck like an old woman.

Last, my 4runner runs like a dream.

 

The only thing you need in addition to your supercharger is gas money. Lots and lots of gas money.

 

I've read of supercharged 3rd Gen 4runners that have been converted to run e85 in addition to premium. The high ethanol content is said to prevent any predetination or ping. Downside is that the kit is a grand. Any thoughts?

 

I was running methanol injection on my Grand National back in the day but with a big stuff controller and it was very efficient once set up correctly.

 

The cost, availability and further range/efficiency reduction likely won’t make it feasible but that’s my inexperienced opinion. (Will you need that kit to run higher, not-E85 octanes?)

 

E85 gets about -40% worse fuel mileage over 93 pump gas. You have to have bigger fuel pump and about double the injector to flow it, and yes it burns it like no tomorrow. You will get about 2-5mpg at 50% throttle on climbs with E85 and at full throttle you will be lucky to get 1mpg. Your 18.5 gal tank is going to be lucky to get you 150 miles per tank up and down mountains NOT towing, so since you are towing 2000-3000 pounds you are going to be lucky to get 100-120 miles to a tank of fuel. E85 would be the last thing i would run unless its easy to get on your trip or you plan to haul around a 55 gal drum of it and a hand pump to keep your tank topped off.

Running a 4R and pulling heavy, the supercharger is going to make it a world of difference BUT you will really really want to run premium with octane boost on your climbs. The ECU is good at detecting knock, but not great at preventing it. The engine will be able to lug a high gear and "bog" but still pull big climbs at low RPM, this is the graveyard for boosted engines. The ECU wasnt programmed to know its boosted and doesnt have the tables in the ECU to sense load and downshift like it needs. With the supercharger you will be able to pull tons better and lug the motor down and have enough torque to "muscle" up hills and into headwinds but those low RPM and lugging the motor down while at part throttle like 10-20% throttle will have the engine very lean for efficiency and being lean with boost under loads = detonation. This is an easy recipe to smash the rod bearings out and have a clunking engine when you get home. I am not sure if there is a way to pull timing on your engine, does anyone make timing keys or ECU flashes to work on timing? Maybe see if Overland Taylor does an ECU flash for your machine and the supercharger, i am sure that would be the way to go.

In the TRD flashes, there were completley different algorithms for load and trans tuning to keep the engine from lugging down and staying in a high gear at slower speeds. Under loads the supercharger will build boost at low throttle % and since the ECU was programmed to see that it has XXX air density, and XX throttle percentage, it assumes it needs to have XX fuel flow to maintain XX AFR. The tune after the supercharger modifies all this and looks more at throttle percentage, crankshaft speed (RPM), gear ratio, to calculate load and then uses an algorithm to upshift and downshift to keep load off the engine to help reduce the likelihood of detonation.

 

Doing all of that, for what you say you need..... Id get a different vehicle. But, best of luck.

 

I'm looking for advice on a meth controller and advice on how to manage the ecu. Give me your thoughts.
Also, while we have the plenum off, should I put in new or larger injectors, *just in case* I want to run a 2.2 pulley when headed to the mountains? I intend to run the stock 2.37 pulley otherwise. There is also a 2.3".
I can drop the tank and put in a larger fuel pump later but larger injectors (at a minimum we'll pull and clean the existing injectors, so we're already there) seems to make sense to do during the SC install.

I'm interested in value, but not damaging my truck is my first objective. Thanks in advance.

 

I did, here....

Read what i posted above again, and then read it again, and then if you still dont have the message read it again.
If you still want to try it out go to Custom Tacos, a place where everyone wanted to supercharge and turbocharge their tacomas. Everyone was turning to meth to keep IATs cool, albeit this was 15+ years ago, maybe you can find an oldie still hanging around on there that remembers how and what evryone was using. There should be tons and tons of reading from the hundreds of threads about it cause it was all the rage back in 2004-2008 with the superchargers on v6 and turbos on the 4cyls.

 

Correct in all of the above. This is taking into account the hours upon hours of tuning and testing to find a perfect medium. Mine after swapping over full send, was especially limited to track/trailer use.

Performance was there. The swap point is the hard part to decide on what can be used daily on the street. At some point I had to realize the point I was willing to push to for the end result. Daily driver at that time was a 7.3 F-250 which allowed me to play with the Buick and Duster. Looking back, Monday morning QB style, I realize this isn't a Tacoma but the same influences are there in regards to wants versus rewards and daily reliability.
Good luck!

 

After reading your comment 5 times, I couldn't find anything about a recommended meth controller for the 5vz-fe with a stock 2.37" pulley. Regrettably, I also didnt see any comment about a recommended piggyback for my limited, specific application.
Merry Christmas.

 

Good luck boss man. Custom tacos.

 

I can't put into words how helpful you've been.

 

I don’t have water/methanol injection, so I don’t have first hand experience. I’ve heard AEM has a progressive kit for that seems to work well.

Do you have a wideband gauge? You’ll need one to get your w/m injection dialed in.

 

Yes, gotta wideband. Putting in wideband, egt, boost, and run all meaningful 2001 4runner OBDII data through a OBDlink LX to a 9" tablet.

 

That’s good.

As far as running E85 goes, I’m currently running it with my turbo setup. You need a bigger fuel pump, I’m running a 255lph one. I’m also running 30% larger than stock fuel injectors to compensate for the 30% higher fueling requirement of E85. Even when I was NA before the turbo, I simply replaced my stock 245cc injectors with Supra 315cc ones, filled up with E85, and the ECU is none the wiser. Just for good measure, I replaced my fuel filter after a few hundred miles in case any gunk got cleaned out of the gas tank by the E85. I’m currently tuning closed loop with URD’s Air Fuel Ratio Sensor Calibrator. There’s better ways to tune, including a Haltech stand alone ECU. But Haltech is expensive and mine was more of a budget build since my 4Runner is no longer my daily driver. In your shoes, since you already have a water/methanol system, I would not run E85. There’s not much point to running E85 and w/m injection. The TRD MP62 supercharger is undersized for a 3.4L V6 motor, so it’s not very efficient; meaning that supercharger is really heating up the intake charge. Injecting w/m will help to cool things back down. It would be easier for you to keep a few gallons of water/methanol in the trunk, as it can be a pain to find E85 stations on long road trips. And getting 2/3 the range with E85 can be annoying as well. However $/mile it is cheaper to run e85 than it is 93 premium gas, even with the ~30% heavier fuel consumption of E85.

 

Since posting this, I've abandoned e85. It's not easy to get where I'm at, and in WY it will be measurably harder. I carry jerry cans as it is.
So, if I run the stock 2.37" pulley and run meth, should I upgrade or just replace my stock injectors with 200k miles on them? What meth controller? Should I run a piggyback or leave that to later if I decide to got to a 2.2" pulley and at tgat point drop the tank and put in a higher capacity fuel pump?

 

I would check out the AEM progressive controller.
https://www.aemelectronics.com/prod...tMXTK8523pvOqz3yejrkU1-pLRzSIkD4aAjMyEALw_wcB

What sort of budget are you working with? I’d recommend a piggyback to tune with. I’m using URD’s Air Fuel Ratio Sensor Calibrator. You have an ‘01 so that’s an option for you too. I use it to tune fueling for part throttle boost in closed loop.

 

What gear ratio are you running right now? Bigger tires? Or stock....?

I think regearing would be a better combo for the SC than all the other stuff. Ok, maybe the fuel pump...thing. oh, and even much more important, get a new set of breaks....preferably Bigger rotors...now you need help stopping!

 

Yup, regear that poor ole 8” and 7.5” diff to at least 488 if not 529. You’ll pull no problem. Bigger injectors you’ll need them profiled correctly. Better or newer fuel pump with a new regulator and fuel filter so you have no fuel delivery issues. If you haven’t already, a tad bit colder spark plugs.

 

I will say, if you get it rolling, how you want, .. Please post some pics and vids. Do you man.

But, sorry, I am zero help with what you want to accomplish, but wish ya luck.

 

Any preference for URD over Split Second Air/fuel controller?

 

I have to shift into second a lot in the mountains. I'm not sure changing the gear ratio would solve that.

 

They are the same thing.

 

@ChuckS just curious, what did you end up doing?

 

I got my 2nd gen TRD SC rebuilt completely by Supchargers Online. I'm going to completely go through the truck: Put the truck up, go over the frame with a needle scaler and rust treat with POR15, replace stock 245cc injectors with 295cc, Snow Performance stage 2 meth injection, URD fuel air controller, replace hitch and 12mm bolts (hitch was rusting and bolts were rusted/worn to 9mm), new oem lower ball joints, new larger fuel pump with lines to/from fuel filter, added 42" roof top light bar and backup lights (already have bull bar mounted amber and white light bars and ditch lights), added new bright LED stop, turn, backup bulbs, new 7 pin connector mounted in rear bumper so that it can't get drug off *like last time*. Working on the front mounted hitch today. I've got a 9,000 lb winch on a hitch mount so I can pull myself out either way. Already have OME 2" lift springs, adding new OME shocks, probably go with the outboard shock mounts on rear, adding ARB extended vents. New EGT guage and fuel pressure gauge.
I'm going through the undercarriage with a fine tooth comb when it gets a bit warmer and then start the frame treatment. Then once I'm satisfied it's all solid and will stay that way, I'll start the SC install.
As I've written, I go into no man's land in Wyoming and pull a trailer. I've added all the lights because there's no such thing as too much light on hair pin curves on a rock road on a rock mountain with no marking or guard rails and nothing but a vertical drop on the downhill side. Ditch lights are irreplaceable to let you know where you are in the road. And the roof lights help big time in the prairie where you can drive past a turn and not know it.
As I've learned, hp falls 3% for every 1000 ft of elevation. I'm at 750, so when I go to elk camp at 9750 ft, I climb 9000 ft, which is a 27% hp loss. The SC should get that all back, plus.
Why so much work on 2001 4runner with 214k miles? First, it's a 3rd gen 4runner and is just about a perfect design for offroad and its famously hard to break. 2nd, new ones are $72k.

 

Oh I hear you. I pull my ~3,500lbs boat around in the summer time and up the mountain I live on. I did it for years NA, and while it did what I asked, it was quite slow in doing it. Same thing when going skiing in the mountains; the truck NA would struggle, even at just 5,000ft of elevation, going through mountain country. And mine isn't even armored or carrying a ton of extra weight.

Last year I turbocharged it and what a difference it made. Where before it would downshift to 3rd, now I can accelerate up those same inclines in 4th gear with ease. Lately I've been tinkering with running a standalone ECU, but running it in parallel with the stock ECU. The parallel ECU has full control of fueling and ignition, and the stock ECU handles everything else. A little more expensive than some of the piggyback controllers, but much cheaper than Haltech. So far I'm really liking it.

 

Which ecu you looking at? It better be cheaper than Haltech. It's the racing gas price of ecu's. As I wrote, I got the URD fic, which is/was made by Split Second. It works in both closed and open loop, which is what I wanted. The R4 software is ancient, but ok. I'll have two programs, one for here at 750', and one for above 4500 ft. I *may* do one for high altitude, i.e. above 7500.
I forgot that I have full armor including gas tank. I've got rock sliders but I'm really not a rock climber, but when I'm on BLM land out west, you just don't know what you'll run into. They all add weight.
I'll be done with the build sometime before July 4 and likely by the end of May, but delays are inevitable, like when I went to rove the hitch and found out 2 of tge 4 bolts on each side aren't welded in and installed on straps of sheet metal that just crumple under the force of a impact gun.

 

I have the uaEFI (Ultra Affordable EFI). The uaEFI taps into the factory sensors (coolant temp, IAT, cranks and cam position sensors, TPS, etc.) for the information it needs. Injectors and coils are disconnected from the stock ECU and now controlled by the uaEFI. I'm in it for less than a grand including all the wiring and extra sensors (MAP and flex fuel + pigtails) and other consumables throughout the project.