Front Driver Side "Groan"

22 SR5 74,000 miles

Took my 4R into the dealership 3 weeks ago for a groan noise coming from the front that really got loud when it was cold here. They ended up replacing front diff parts and the passenger side wheel bearing under that TSB 0075-23. Thank god it was still under warranty (certified used) because those two things would have cost me 5k. The noise is still there. I have an appointment for next Wednesday again but I was wondering if the community could help me with what noise happens with the needle bearing on these trucks. I am 100% certain that it is coming from the drivers side and i sometime feel it in the floorboard.

I bought the 4Runner from the dealership. The GM was driving it and because they titled it under the dealership it is technically used. I bought it with about 6k miles on it. We've heard this noise ever since about 25k miles. I thought it was just because of the additions i did. Toyo's and Eibach leveling kit. But after chasing that noise and trying to figure out what it could possibly be I was so grateful when I saw a post about the TSB 0075-23 here. SO GRATEFUL. But unfortunately it didnt make the groan go away. BUT fortunately because of this community they replaced the front diff parts that would have eventually failed.

Any advise or anything I should mention to the dealership would be appreciated. I just dont know enough about the "symptoms" of the needle bearing going bad.

Thank you to anyone who replies. I really appreciate this community

 

That noise could be a few things:

1) Needle Bearing (a common problem that many of us have had to deal with).
2) Steering Pump.
3) Steering Rack.
4) CV Axles.
5) Suspension components (UCA, LCA, Struts, Shocks, etc).

Does it make noise only if you turn? Only if you hit a certain MPH? When you reverse? In cold weather? Going up inclines? On acceleration? During braking?

Sorry, I know I asked a lot, but there are so many things to consider to find out the root cause of the problem.

 

Please dont apologize, great questions.
Doesnt happen in turns. If I turn the steering wheel I dont hear it, it isnt a steering groan.
I hear it between 30-45mph going straight. Under 30 mph and over 45 I dont hear it.
Going up inclines YES, i hear it.
No I dont hear it in reverse.
I've heard it on cold and warm days BUT as it got extremely cold, we heard it more often.
I dont see any grease coming from the cv axle.
I have chased this noise for 2 years. The noise hasnt got worse, just the same "groan".

I am mechanically inclined, I do all the maintenance myself. Ive been working on cars for 40 years. This just has me stumped. If there is something I can check, let me know, I will do it. One thing I haven't done is check for play in the CV axle, I think I saw a video that showed if there is excessive play it is the needle bearing. But again, I am 100% open to your thoughts and suggestions
Thank you so much for your thoughts. As I mentioned, I am taking it in BUT they didnt identify the true cause last time, I just didnt know outside of saying I hear a groan if I should tell them more. Listen, I am so glad they did all that TSB work regardless of whether it fixed it or not. That saved my 5k.

 

Needle bearing.

Search for it and you'll find a bunch of posts with similar symptoms to yours.

Replace with OEM under CPO warranty or replace on your dime with ECGS bushing (preferred, as this is a lifetime fix).

 

When it's making this noise between 30-45mph, have you tried putting it into 4H to see if the noise goes away? That's usually the true test of a needle bearing issue.

 

Appreciate you! Yes, Id prefer to go the permanent route but it is covered under warranty, if it is that. So for now Ill let them fix it. Next time Ill replace it with ECGS. Do you happen to know was the needle bearing issue just caused by a bad batch of them and did they fix them OR is it just known for wearing and is just a replacement part that needs to be done periodically.

 

Thank you! Yes, I did that test and in 4H i do not hear it

 

Its just a shit design.

Tiny ass bearing rollers fall apart.

The ECGS changes the bearing to a bushing so don't have to deal with the rollers falling out.

 

lol stupid ass Toyota.. replaced one faulty diff with another one. Just fix the god damn design already!

 

It has been a shit design for 30 years now.
Not a bad batch. Poor design

 

It looks like an ECGS bushing installation is the ticket.

 

This is the needle bearing in the diff, the TSB replaced the bushings for the front diff, not the diff, nor the bearing.
Its the make, and quality of the needle bearing that is the problem.
Your lift and increased axle angles is what makes this worse, it created excessive axle angles, which in turn creates excessive load on the bearing due to the increased axle angle putting pressure on the CV joint and splined axle stub in the front diff which ride on that needle bearing.

 

What everyone else above said LOL

Poor design

It also affects Tacomas. Interestingly, not the FT 4wd Limited 4R though.... Slightly different diff design.

 

thank you for explaining it to me. That makes sense.

 

Please confirm if sounds goes away in 4wd.

 

Confirmed, the sound goes away in 4wd

 

No needle bearings

 

i vote needle bearing

 

It doesn't have to be certified used as long as it hasn't gone over 60,000 miles. I'm taking mine in next Friday.

 

Ok. That would indicate needle bearing, as others have suggested.

I've seen others mention this issue sometimes rears its head after a suspension change. Not to say it wouldn't have eventually happened anyway. It probably would have, as it's a somewhat common ailment.

I'm curious now, did the issue show up soon after your leveling kit? Or quite awhile later?

 

Unless hes got a crazy lift, i dont think that would cause it. I lifted mine 2” in the front and going on 43000 miles without issues or noise. My Falkens and Yakima cargo rack make more noise than the diff. My 2011 has a 2” lift with 100k racked up after the lift and a total of 172k on the original needle bearings and no noise. I’ve read all of other members diff issues and am just grateful I’ve never experienced this. Knock on wood.

 

Right. It's just that with a needle bearing that's failing or about to fail, sometimes all it takes is a little nudge to make the existing problem become noticeable. I've not had the problem yet myself. Also knocking on wood!

 

Also, there have been guys on here with stock suspension who have had needle bearing issues/groans before 10K miles. Also, part of the Tech's check for the TSB is to run the vehicle in 4High to see if the noise stops.
ECGS bushing is the way to go. I have about 40-45K on my ECGS bushing and no issues.

 

im buying a set to have in hand just incas.

 

I brought my 23 ORP in twice for the "groan" and they installed a stupid damper. The second time they said the noise wasn't loud enough for Toyota to replace the diff. I'm just going to install the ECGS kit.

 

Dealerships need to use a vibration analyzer if they don't already. Pretty good video here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfoHv0-xZxI