Hate to admit it, but the Ranger Raptor will destroy Taco/4R TRD Pro/Trailhunter sales

It is pretty common for Jeep dealers to mount 37s on the XR Wrangler and honor the warranty

 

Last week I met a kid on the trail. His 2024 Willys had Rubicon Dana44s(M220 rear, M210 front), rear locker, BLD(A-Trac equivalent), Rubicon fenders, 4.10 and 285/70/R17 KO2s. He had installed a cheap $150 disconnect and his little toy was unstoppable.
SR5 4Runner and Willys Wrangler are the best if all you want is offroading.
Folks should join this forum before making the purchase so that they get some advice. Most, including me, joined after purchasing.


The Rubicon Express disconnect



One end is simply ziptied to the swaybar. Pretty neat

 

So you admit you just made that line up. Thanks for clarifying.


Rates were 0% in 2020 because of a little thing called Covid. Millions of people out of work and the economy almost collapsed. I don’t know about you but not a place I want to revisit. The situation now is an over correction from panic measures they took back in 2020 when they didn’t know if the economy would even survive it.

I don’t like inflation any more than you do but those rates right now are high on purpose as the fed is trying to slow the economy down to bring inflation back to 2%.

 

You're absolutely right though, the Braptor is almost exotic car territory when it comes to pricing, but the Braptor (imo) doesn't compete with the 5th gen TRD Pro solely because of price and also I'd say it's a monster truck it's definitely more capable than a 4R. The Bronco Badlands I'd say is more close to the Pro in terms of pricing and such though.

 

Who go to that trouble, just to have to cut the tie to put it back? Its got quick release pins at both ends. Pull both and toss the link in the glove box.

 

My sister has been saying lately she wants a Jeep. Her and her husband are avid mountain bikers and she wants something a bit more sturdy than her Corolla to carry heavy bikes to trailheads.

I was playing with the configurator and pricing out a loaded Wrangler. Holy *(&% how do people that don't work in law/medicine/tech/etc afford these things????

( I know the answer, just being facetious)

 

Key point in bold. It IS a culture. World class manufacturing standards and quality control has always been Toyotas core competency. They invented Just in Time. They are the benchmark that other big manufacturers around the world study. My employer is a direct software supplier to Toyota engineering. Toyota is very hands on with their suppliers and there is a great book that explains how Toyota works and expects their suppliers to work that is basically required reading for all managers and senior tech folks at my company. I have read it and its worth a look if you are really interested in this stuff (its written in layman terms).

$29 The Toyota Way, Second Edition: 14 Management Principles from the World's Greatest Manufacturer

The Toyota Way


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And this is not to say that Ford is necessarily bad... its just world class quality is not a top priority for them. Every car manufacturer is different.

BMW for example prioritizes high performance sedans with world class road feel and handling. They do a very good job of that. But they don't focus on reliability as they know many of their customers simply don't care as much- they lease and want the latest and greatest and will move on to the next one before its out of warranty.

Mercedes priorities the ultimate in Luxury and is at the forefront of many new tech innovations. But like BMW, reliability is not a focus as their buyers also lease and want the latest. Let other companies copy what they introduce a decade later and make it bulletproof (i.e. Lexus).

Then take Honda. Their reliability is good, but not quite Toyota. But they are not trying to beat Toyota at that game. Soichiro Honda was an engineer and race car driver and the company passion has always been motor sport. Their core competency is being a world class engine builder. They dont make the most brute power but their engine designs are some of the most elegant in the world and they have a talent for making Ferrari levels of naturally aspirated HP to displacement ratios with near Toyota level engine durability and doing it at prices average people can afford.

Then consider Jeep. They do one thing, and do it well - a short wheelbase solid axle no compromises 4x4 that can be a monster rock crawler right off the dealer floor. Sure the reliability sucks but we all know its rugged as hell.

And so on...

 

Agreed. Even the lower trims look a little better just due to gearing and clearance. The Raptor is in a whole other class.

This makes too much sense.

Why not recommend a 4Runner? Or, even a Highlander, if they're not looking to off-road?

Or, do they just want a Jeep because Jeep?

I looked at pricing last year during my "crisis", and it looked reasonable for the 2-door models.

 

She wants a Jeep because she likes what they look like. And I egg her on because I wouldn't mind taking it for a spin Her husband already has a Tundra... Shes cost conscious, but they probably have 30k+ worth of bicycles in their garage - go figure....

And the disconnect link, I'm sure he just didn't notice the second quick pin. I was just being a smartass

 

I don't blame her, honestly. I still might try to own a Jeep at some point. 2 door with the top off just looks like fun to me!

 

They are cool no doubt. I think a CJ7 would would make a really fun project truck to work on. Hell a WWII Willys would be fun also. Just not as a DD commuter.

But I'm wierd. I got to take a spin in a 1915 model T once and I wanted to drive it sooooooooo bad. Museum car however, they wouldn't let me.

 

I mean this is why I laugh when people come on here and talk about how they once knew a person who had a super reliable Ford, Jeep, Land Rover, etc. I totally understand the appeal of saying the hell with it and getting a Jeep because of the doors coming off, top coming down and it being the most capable off the road from the dealer. They are great fun in nice weather in the mountains. But let’s just stop saying a Ford, GM, Stellantis or “any modern make that is maintained” is as reliable. There is a very obvious trade-off and one that is rational to make depending on one’s personal situation. It’s like me sitting here pretending a TRD Pro 4Runner or Trailhunter is gonna be able to tackle as crazy of trails as the Bronco Raptor… that’s delusional. It’s a stadium truck masquerading as a drivable daily car.

 

I never said they where reliable - others in the thread did.

I know they are not, and its why if I got one it would be as a dedicated trail rig toy to play with - not a DD. Lots of classic cars that people own as projects are not reliable, but that's not why people own them.

​

 

Could be worse...

Look at how much money people spend on UTV's.

 

Optioned Wranglers cost a lot. I heard that for 2027 model year, Wranglers will come standard with two wheels only, the other two will be a $3,999 option.
If carrying their bikes is all they want, start with a basic 2 door sport with the tow package. 3.6, 6 spd come standard, just add the tow package and that's it. All Wranglers come with BLD(A-Trac equivalent) standard, and that is enough to take you places.

 

If I told you how much Ive spent over the years on toy airplanes your head would spin.

 

It's all entertainment. People spend money on things they enjoy.

My 4Runner is only for personal use, as I have a work vehicle, yet I average probably close to $5K/yr in fuel. I don't even want to know what I've spent over the years on fishing gear.

My philosophy is generally that, if you're having fun, or enjoy the things you buy, there's no such thing as a waste of money.

 

Life is short and un predictable. Don't delay fun. GX550, here I come

 

Please say you’re going Overtrail in Nori Green. Those are such handsome trucks.

 

Over Trail in any color available, too impatient to wait for the Nori green. There are dozens of people ahead of me

 

Amen brother.

I know people that have stupid high incomes that over analyse spending $40 on take out food as "irresponsible" and buy a used minivan with cloth seats in some hideous color because they got a deal on it..... Their kids will probably have a building dedicated in their name some day I guess... maybe that's what they want?

 

It's also about keeping the dirt outside the Jeep. Those links also need greasing from time to time, so its a good idea to just remove one end. Removing both and then putting them back on is not as easy as it seems in the picture.

 

I challenge a Branco Craptor and a TRD Pro to follow this stock 2 door Willys. GOOD LUCK! These little things are impossible to keep up with it. I reversed for half a mile on the narrow trail, he simply turned around lol.
As far as reliability is concerned, the 3.6L Pentastar is pretty decent, and the 8 spd ZF transmission is bulletproof. People modify the crap out of Jeeps and then shit breaks. Things can break on the trail, even Toyotas.
This kid was a good listener. I emphasized oil and fluid changes and he listened. If he keeps this Jeep stock, which he said he will, it will run trouble-free forever. I am hoping I get to meet him again on some trail.

 

This is why Jeeps break

 

Yup, Toyota is cooked.

They need to pull a Tesla and lower 4th gen Taco and 6th gen 4runner prices if they want to be competitive. They also need to stop dealers with their insane markups and dealer add-ons.

If the Tundras are collecting dust at dealers now, this should be a wake up call...

https://youtu.be/yghhcqG8Jzs?si=3WUKBVTc72D1Cm0l

 

Huh? The F150 Raptor has been around for like 15 years and still demands high prices.

 

You're right about that, but remember, even a lot of Toyota buyers who aren't car guys like us buy these cars for the short term. Trust me, I've met more people in my life that "upgrade" vehicles all the time than people who actually keep vehicles long term. In my area, for example, a lot of people lease Toyotas here that's why there are so many CPOs and used at dealers.

We only bitch about reliability because we are car guys, we're nuts about cars, and we own one of the most reliable and bullet proof vehicles ever made. 99% of drivers don't care. If you think reliability is #1... then why does Ford still exist? GM? Hyundai? Be real here.

 

F-150 Raptors hold their values as well as 4Runners

 

MSRPs mean nothing in the world of markups. Also remember the many recalls and TSBs Toyota has as well. It's mass production.

I'm considering a Ranger V6 now that they put the 2.7 back in it.

 

Even I'm considering one too later on. Still keeping my 4R but I will need a pick up truck later on due to my business.