Trade or fix it?

Hi, All.

I am in need of some opinions...

I have a 2005 4Runner Limited w/ 164,000 miles on it. I am the original owner.

A few months back, the 4Runner started shimmying at speeds higher than 30. I assumed it was a wheel bearing issue. Took it in to the dealer shop and they confirmed it was an issue with the wheel bearing. It seemed to work a little better after that--now shimmying only a little at speeds above 50. I took it back to the shop, and they couldn't find anything.

Fast forward to last week, and I was traveling at 60 MPH at it started vibrating so badly I felt it was unsafe to drive the 40 miles to my destination. So, I turned around, and headed directly back to the dealer.

THIS TIME they tell me the vehicle needs $7800 in repairs, but I am not trusting them on most of the repairs. Here are the repairs they say need IMMEDIATE attention:

--Replace two tires. (I don't trust this because, upon inspection, the tread is still good. Also, one of the tires they recommend replacing is the front right tire--which I just had replaced about two months ago after a flat--right before taking it into the dealership the first time.)

--Replace front quick stuts/shocks

--Coolant exchange. (They have a not on the report that says, "Customer requests coolant exchange." WTF. I brought it in for an issue with SHIMMYING. Never requested that.

--Transmission exchange.

--Rear differential exchange.

--Case fluid exchange.

--Fuel induction change

--Timing belt package.

--Front inner CV boot replacement.

I tried to get an appointment scheduled with a local mechanic NOT affiliated with a dealership, but they are all booked out for the next two weeks, so I have to wait until then.

For giggles, I decided to take the vehicle to CarMax to see what they would pay for it. They took about an hour to test drive it, check it out in their shop, etc. I feared the worst. I was shocked when they sat me down and said, "The interior is in excellent shape, the exterior is in good shape, there have been no accidents, and there are no mechanical issues."

Huh?!! Now, for the test drive, I don't think they drove it over about 40 MPH, because they stayed on side streets near the facility. So, they likely didn't feel the vibrations that happen at speeds above 50.

Still, I am mystified. CarMax did not find ONE mechanical or maintenance problem with the vehicle. Are they just that lax (or uninformed) in checking things out? (I did tell them I had no intention of buying another vehicle there; that I was only interested in selling mine. I didn't want to confuse the issue if they thought there might be a car purchase in the mix.) OR...has the dealership that I have gone to since I bought it back in 2005 now selling me a load of crap? In the past, they have always been fair and reasonable in their assessments.

I am honestly confused here. I suppose it will make the most sense to wait until I take it to an independent mechanic and see what they say. Still, you'd think CarMax would have picked up on ONE of the issues at least.

Right now, I am leaning toward selling it. I know 4R's can last up to 300,000 miles, but I fear this thing will start nickleing and diming me to death--even if the dealer's report is crap.

Thoughts?

Many thanks in advance for any insights.

 

Oh...forgot to add that Carmax said they would give me $5500 for it. So, IF the dealer's repairs are indeed needed, the value of the car is less than the alleged repairs.

 

Welcome. If it was indeed the wheel bearing causing the wander, your front tire could be cupped and causing the vibration. It also sounds like your 4Runner might be in need of some much needed maintenance, if you haven’t done any of the dealer mentioned repairs. I would definitely have an independent Toyota mechanic look at it, but it will still be an expensive repair.

 

Thank you for your prompt reply. I have kept up on the regularly scheduled maintenance, which is why I was so shocked.

 

If that’s the case, then wait until you get a second opinion. Dealers always like to make people feel like the end of the world will come if they don’t empty their wallet.

 

What size are your tires? Bigger tires will need to be road forced balanced. You stated that you had new tires installed right before shimmy started, then you took it to the dealership. There are quite a few reports of shimmy issues with the 5th gen. and bigger tires. Most are balance issues. There are some that never got rid of the shimmy with the tires they had. They had to buy new ones.

Do the shocks and struts have 164,000 miles on them? If so, that could be part of the problem.

 

LOL! So true.

 

17" wheels

I had those replaced at 93,000 miles.

 

That's what I had read on other forums, and it makes sense. I am just left scratching my head with all the other repairs they listed--some that seemingly have nothing to do with a shimmying issue.

 

Shops will recommend anything they have no records for. Sadly pretty common and there is no test a shop does aside from testing the water content of brake fluid that is remotely accurate.

Nothing they recommended makes sense to me as a former tech. Tires maybe if you have a defect but that's easy to determine by swapping front to rear... it could also be warrantied if new enough Struts don't cause steering shimmy but can cause other weird feedback if that's what you're feeling. The rest is gravy work.

 

Alignment possibly? I wouldn’t sell it, most of what they are recommending is maintenance, not fixing your problem. Is yours the v8? If it is and you haven’t done the timing belt, it’s strongly recommended as your well past due. Just for reference I want to say my timing belt service with me supplying parts, and I bought a lot of parts, was like $1,300 if I recall. And that was replacing the belt and almost everything in front of the engine all the way out including the radiator. This was at an independent shop.

 

Thank you for confirming what I suspected. I will see what the independent mechanic says, but I am fairly certain they won't recommend all the work that the dealership shop did.

 

That was exactly my concern! Yes, SOME of the other stuff is regular maintenance (although most of it I have already have done in the past at the recommended intervals, and they have records of that). But even if the repairs are only half of what they recommend, it still is getting close to being more than the value of the vehicle, so it wouldn't make sense, really, to keep it.

The other issue--and it is not one that they mentioned but that I noticed last time I crawled under the vehicle--is the undercarriage has SEVERE rust (common, I know for this model year). I was actually surprised that the Carmax folks didn't call out the rust issue.

 

Well the value of your 4Runner and maintenance bills, IMO aren’t related. If you like your vehicle and want to keep it then maintenance costs are moot.

however, now that you mentioned rust… unfortunately I would probably walk away. That is something that 9 out of 10 times can’t be resolved easily or for any decent price.

 

Agreed. And, to be honest, I have been liking the vehicle less and less over the years.

 

Dealer service advisors work on commission, so they're going to push everything under the sun.

Some of those things may be needed eventually, for example fluid changes are good practice, but do not have any bearing on the issue at hand. The timing belt is the exception, if it's never been done, you want to take care of that sooner than later.

I would take it to a shop that specializes in front end and alignment work and see what the say. Don't mention what the dealer said, just explain the actual problem.

If you still like the vehicle, I wouldn't sell it over these "issues". These are relatively solid vehicles, but keep in mind it's still 19 years old, so stuff WILL pop up that needs addressing. Dealing with maintenance stuff is still way cheaper than a new vehicle.

If you DO decide to get rid of it, the fact that you mentioned T-Belt tells me you have the V8, and with relatively low mileage you can easily get more than 5,500 if you sell it yourself. Especially being one owner, that's a huge selling point.

Edit: just noticed you mentioned severe rust. If it's structural, forget what I said and take the CarMax money. IMO you can't in good conscience sell it to a private party. Rust has probably totalled more of these than anything else.

 

Thanks for detailed and thoughtful response. I agree on all points...especially the rust issue. That's why I have started liking the vehicle less and less. The undercarriage is a total rust bucket. I mentioned that to the dealer several times, and each time they just shrug and say it's not that big of a deal. I literally asked them if they even LOOKED at the undercarriage when it was up on the hoist, because if they had, they would see how badly it is rusted. That's one of the reasons I have started to like the vehicle less and less; I just keep wondering if the rust will cause something to break loose underneath while I'm driving. As you said: It is unconscionable to sell a vehicle with that much rust to anyone else. Hence, why I took it to Carmax instead of advertising it direct.

 

I mean if you pointed it out to the dealer I wonder if it’s just a ton of surface rust and nothing structural. Or, they were trying to get your money on maintenance items on a doomed vehicle. Some pictures would help determine that.

but sounds like you ready to let go anyways so I would sell to carmax, or if the rust is truly just surface rust, private party.

 

It's more like the dealer is defensive about admitting there is any rust at all. First time I mentioned it--just asking if he had seen how bad the rust is--the guy at the dealership said "4Runners aren't part of the rust lawsuit." I found that very telling since I never ONCE mentioned ANYTHING about the lawsuits with Tacomas and Sequias. I suspect they have a lot of angry 4Runner owners with lots of rust, as it is a known issue. Still, why would they bring that up before directly answering my question about whether they saw it or not.

I came top the conclusion today that I am just done with this dealership now and, frankly, with Toyota. They're getting pretty scammy in their repair practices.

EDIT: Even if it was "just"" a lot of surface rust, that is STILL unacceptable for a car with so few miles for its age, plus the fact that it was garaged and driven very, very little in winters. (I have worked 100% from home for the past 12 years. And, I always washed it if it was taken out in salt or snow. But it is more than surface rust.)

 

Can't really guess too well without photos or you getting a second, third opinion. All those things should not be $7800 and if you are remotely handy, half can be DIY and are also preventative maintenance that doesn't mean a problem - they'd probably recommend them on any car that comes through the door if applicable.

If you have to deal with a dealer, find a better dealer. But for an older vehicle, I don't think you should ever need to go there.

Extensive surface rust is one thing, being able to poke holes with a screwdriver is another.

 

No problem, glad I could offer some help. The rust can definitely end up being a safety issue, especially as these are prone to rusting where the rear suspension mounts. That could definitely be a bad time if it failed.

Sounds like you've definitely gotten your money out of this, 19 years is a good run. Have you thought about what you'd replace it with yet?

I often think about what I would replace my 4Runner with if I wasn't going to get another one. I've spent some time underneath mine to mitigate the rest that was there and hopefully to prevent it from getting worse, but being in New England I'm sure eventually it will take over. Sometimes. I think of just selling it now while it's in good shape and moving to something less vulnerable to rust.

 

Yes; it definitely has had a good run! No complaints on that end. I haven't really thought about what I'd replace it with yet, but I will definitely focus on something with better gas mileage, but is still fun to drive. I've just started my search, so I'm sort of all over the place. LOL!

 

Back to the shimmy...

Has anyone suggested swapping the front wheels for the rear wheels?

If the shimmy changes (moves to the back) then yeah, it's a tire\wheel issue. If not, it's something else and a good wheel\alignment\suspension shop should be able to diagnose it. I would look at the drive shaft and so forth next.

 

No, but that's a great idea! Thanks!

 

Tie rod ends? Ball joints? both can cause issues you have. Control arm bushings?