What do y'all think of 5W-20?

many people fell into marketing traps to judge product by the label. viscosity is a major, if not the one and only component of product (oil), that people based their buying decision. next is the name, that particularly appealing to some. then color of packaging, then form of container, then presentation on a "store" shelf, etc. let's say someone got into auto store to oil department and see all jars same color, same jars form with only viscosity labeled. it will be at list dozen jars of same viscosity from different oil resellers. how to decide which one to buy?
read on jar label of additives added to oil. hold on - it is not there!? additives package are second major component of oil, after oil base (synthetic, etc.). that's how product is sold, designed to appeal to consumer's feeling, but not clear understanding what makes product good for every car, and that is an additives package, and role of every single additive, and how every additive works and wears out.

 

Lol

 

That would certainly seem correct given how these viscosity numbers are defined. But some people who say they’re in the oil manufacturing business claim the reality is different.

One of the posts above includes a link to a purportedly expert discussion on the topic that states 0-20 runs thinner than 5-20 when it’s stressed in real world conditions at high temps. This is why 5-20 is recommended by some in place of 0-20 in my high-revving GR86, which is harder on oil and more susceptible to consumption issues.

I have no clue what’s right, but this belief is why I started this thread, to solicit information on the topic.

 

I guess it probably comes down to additives, probably.

But, is anyone running 0W-30 or 5W-30 on the 86 forums? What does the viscosity chart look like in the 86's manual?

 

Manual recommends 0-20 but says 5-20 is ok if switched back at next change. This is also what the 4R manual says since around 2020 model year.

Those who run 5-30 in the GR86 seem mostly to do so for track conditions. They seem to mostly run 0-20 or 5-20 for DDing. I had more oil consumption than I’d like during the break in period so used 5-20 at my 1k oil change. Haven’t driven enough since then to know if consumption has slowed. I ended up buying a bunch of 5-20 so was thinking about just using it for both cars on next changes.

Edit: I’m in the camp that suspects 0-20 is mostly about CAFE and higher weights are prob a bit better for engine life.

 

Does it have a chart like this one?

 

No. That’s what I’m saying. Toyota stopped using those charts. It’s not in my manual for my 2020 4R or my manual for my 2023 GR. Both just say to use 0-20. Or 5-20 in a pinch. Despite the fact, as has been noted a thousand times, that the engine hasn’t changed (for the 4R) since the days when they did use those charts.

Which is why, for the thousandth time, no one should believe that 0-20 is needed for engine life — or is better for anything other than helping to meet CAFE standards.

 

This page from a 2022 4R limited drivers manual sent in a couple days ago by new member from Chile seems to indicate that 10W30 can be used with recommendations to reduce to 0W or 5W for cold weather starting and 0W20 for improved fuel economy.

 

Right. Which is what some of us keep pointing out. In countries without CAFE standards the manufacturer recommends a broad range of viscosities tied to the temperature in which they’ll be used. 0-20 is specifically for improving MPG. That’s why it exists. It doesn’t exist to make your engine last longer. It’s so obvious.

 

Yeah, I agree. I thought I had heard that those charts were eliminated in the newer manuals, so I guess I know now for sure.

I wonder if they have those charts in other countries. Or, is the 86 only a US market vehicle?

I've been thinking about switching to 0W-30 or 5W-30 for my next oil change. I hadn't considered 5W-20, but I might based on your comments.

 

Here’s something that was posted on GR86.org. Guys there who seem to have professional experience with oil are using 5-20 for the extra viscosity and resistance to high temps that seems to be shown in this screenshot.

I doubt it matters all that much with our very durable 4.0s, but since I’d rather stock only one oil for my changes, and am a bit skeptical of 0-20 for any purpose other than slightly higher MPG, I’m thinking that oil might as well be 5-20.

To answer your question, the 86 is sold in at least Europe and Japan. I read but cannot confirm that 5-20 is a recommended oil for the Japan cars, with 5-30 considered acceptable, at least until the next oil change. And as mentioned a lot of people run 5-30 when tracking the car.

My hunch is that while an engine could be engineered purposefully to last longest on 0-20, in practice most engines are at least equally fine and probably gain life with a higher weight. I’m also pretty darn certain that our dinosaur 4R engines (I say dinosaur with admiration lol) were not actually designed to last longest on 0-20.

 

That's interesting stuff.

I guess, to go back to the original topic, I wouldn't feel bad at all about running 5W-20 in the 4Runner. I'd also feel fine about 5W-30 or 0W-30.

As you mentioned earlier, and I totally agree, 0W-20 is probably only recommended to try to squeeze out another.001 MPG for CAFE BS.

 

I heard this guy was using 0W-20 and doing 10k mile oil changes.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CnU7huxvAOO/

 

Whoa

 

Im a big fan of dyno fail compilation vids

 

FWIW, my son has a V8 powered Mustang. The book calls for 5W-20 oil for everyday use. But requires 5W-50 for track use. With a warning that the warranty may be voided if the proper weight oil is used on the track.
Seems pretty reasonable that the lightweight oils are fine for light duty use. But heavier weight oil should be used for more extreme use.
If the 20 weight oils are best at temperatures below 86*, I’m quite sure that I want a heavier weight oil for the summer temperatures where I live. 40 weight would not be out of line.

 

Looks like Zuckerberg is playing hardball with me. Used to be able to watch Ig videos once before getting cut off, but now…nothing.

Guess I gotta watch dyno fails on youtube. Lol

 

I changed the oil today and went with a M1 0w30. I figure it will do nicely year round.

Im already convinced it’s the best viscosity because the dipstick slides in way smoother now . Sounds funny, but seriously, before it was kinda rough and would catch in the tube, but now it’s like riding on ball bearings lol. That’s gotta say something, probably.

And the engine runs smoother, quieter, faster, and has better gas mileage. Ok, that last sentence is made up.

 

This one takes the cake. I’ve never seen such complete destruction. Was that engine block made of glass??? This thing needed a check valve lol

 

Oh man! Your motor is going to grenade on the first warm day! Your VVTi pods are going to melt! Woe betides ye for going against the words of the mighty engineers as set down in the sacred manual!

 

But didnt you see what I said!?!?! The dipstick is on ball bearings, man! I’ve never felt such smooth dipsticking…ever! My vvti is going to advance and retard so quickly, it’s gonna be like a jackie chan throwing throat punches.

 

Pfft. I can’t believe you’d pour that molasses into your motor and then brag about it. Completely delusional. (Finally I have something to say that’s worth emphasizing with italics.)

ETA: after some introspection, maybe I’m just jealous. Maybe I want my dipstick to feel like it’s on ball bearings too. But I already have the 0W-20 standing by for my next oil change, and it will be another 5,500 miles before I can enjoy the sensation you’ve described. Woe is me.

 

I just bought this last week! I had been considering switching for awhile now. I guess great minds really do think alike.

Ahh, but the engineers do recommend 5W-30 in the 1GR in other markets. So, we're well within spec.

 

It really makes perfect sense. I expect to do the same — or 5-30 — after the next couple changes. I have a stock of 5-20 and 0-20 to go through first. I also need to see how my other car is doing on 5-20 and whether it’s feasible to run the same oil in both. I was orig jazzed on the idea of 5-20 in both vehicles in part cause you can get it cheap in 12 quart box/jugs. But then I realized that while my GR86 specs 5.3 quarts it really wants 5.5 to get to the full mark. So I really need a 12.1 quart box/jug to do both vehicles from the same supply lol.

 

Based on what you said earlier, 5W-20 seems like a fine option, as well. I'm thinking that the 0W-30 should good for cold starts, and hopefully a little extra protection for all of the abuse I throw at it.

 

Noticed that you have 2 types of M1 there AFE and ESP. I've been thinking of using either 0W30 or 5W30 ESP next change to mitigate fuel dilution from short city runs, higher 100C degree viscosity (compared to AFE) and being approved for many european diesel and gasoline engines, very robust oil.

 

Agreed. I’m hoping oil consumption in the GR86 doesn’t compel me to consider a 30 weight there. Jury is still out on how much of an issue it has. I think that motor might actually be designed around 20 weight, so it could be a dilemma.

In contrast, I’ve never thought 20 weight was ideal for the 1GR, other than for mpg.

 

Here is a great article written by an auto repair shop. With all due respect to the commenters, Toyota engineers didn't spend all that money and time to recommend an oil because they just threw a dart and it landed on 0w20. The only reason oil viscosity should be changed is for climate/temperature, track days, and higher mileage worn motors. Remember, there are tiny little oil journals that can get clogged or restricted by using a higher-viscosity oil. It may not flow through the engine the way the engineers designed it. Not sure how this would play out with a warranty claim if something were to go wrong with the engine. Some other markets may call for a 5w30 in the 1gr, but that is because they are in a completely different climate region. Just my 2 cents.

https://columbiatireauto.com/engine...ight be familiar with,a certain grade of oil.

 

0W20 viscosity specs vary a lot between manufacturers and some 5W30 and 0W30 oils start out as thin as 0W20 oils. Some 0W20 oils with soot and water contamination become much thicker after severe short city use.

Brand Weight 40C 100C
MAG 1 0W20 42.31 8.06
Mazda Genuine Motor Oil 0W20 35 8.3
Amsoil XL 0W20 44.2 8.3
Amsoil OE 0W20 44.2 8.3
Pennzoil Platinum 0W20 45.3 8.3
Honda Genuine Motor Oil 0W20 38.87 8.301
Royal Purple 0W20 42.58 8.37
ENEOS 0W20 42.41 8.38
Quaker State Ultimate Durability 0W20 42.6 8.39
Pennzoil Ultra 5W20 47.43 8.4
Toyota Genuine Motor Oil 0W20 36.1 8.5
Castrol EDGE EP 0W20 44.22 8.5
Valvoline Durablend 5W20 45.78 8.5
Pennzoil Platinum 5W20 45.34 8.56
Mobil 1 EP 0W20 44.9 8.6
Mobil 1 Super Synthetic 0W20 44.9 8.6
Valvoline MaxLife High Mileage 0W20 45.5 8.6
Valvoline Durablend 0W20 45.6 8.6
Castrol EDGE 0W20 49.35 8.668
Quaker State Ultimate Durability 5W20 46.51 8.68
Mobil 1 AFE 0W20 44.8 8.7
Valvoline Synpower 5W20 48.1 8.7
Valvoline NextGen MaxLife 5W20 51 8.7
Kendall GT-1 w/ Titanium 0W20 46 8.8
Amsoil Signature 0W20 46.7 8.8
Valvoline Synpower 0W20 47 8.8
Valvoline MaxLife High Mileage 5W20 51.3 8.8
Quaker State Enhanced Durability HM 5W20 51.6 8.8
Castrol GTX SynBlend 0W20 47.64 8.9
Castrol GTX Magnatec 0W20 47.64 8.9
Mobil 1 EP 5W20 49.6 8.9
Mobil 1 5W20 49.8 8.9

 

I must admit, that wasn't intentional. I just grabbed the first 0W-30 I saw.

It's pretty well agreed upon that 0W-20 is used to try to squeeze out another.001 MPG for CAFE standards. And, I believe if the manual even recommends higher viscosity oil in some situations.

Nobody here has ever suggested that 0W-20 was chosen by accident.