Needle bearing...

Ecgs fix is the way to go on this, My Tacoma had it and that part totally fixed the issue. Why Toyota continues to use the needle bearings when there is issue with them is beyond me.

 

Update:
I had called Toyota twice last week asking if they could at least have the dealer look again at the issue with the needle bearing and not just the drive shaft.

This morning, I heard from the service manager as he had heard from Toyota. He stated that Toyota told them to replace the front diff and the drive shaft. He then went on to say the drive shaft is on back order, but the front diff will be here tomorrow(Tuesday) and if the sound goes away after replacing the diff, they will cancel the drive shaft. Wish they had done this last week!
He also stated he requested a Toyota representative to come and inspect the 4R before they release it to me. Hopefully I will have it back this week. Fingers crossed.
Dave

 

You'd sure think Toyota would prefer to put in an ECGS bushing rather than replace the entire differential, but hey...

Good news for you.

 

Yes, it really is strange. It's not as if this problem started yesterday. It appears to be the case for a number of years now. It also sounds like the ECGS fix is permanent. I remember viewing the photos/film here on this Forum as to why some of the needle bearings fail. This would be such an easy fix for Toyota, and probably save them many dollars. But to continue for many years ignoring the needle bearing failure, with no acknowledgement of the aftermarket fix (that's successful), and spending considerably more $ to replace axles and drive shafts, it's almost as if no one at Toyota wants to hear it. Or the problem/solution is not reaching the right person at Toyota. With Toyota's reputation for reliability (earned), you would think they would want to know.

 

Have crawled under both my '22 4runner and my son's '20 Tundra because I'd read about it on the Tundra forums just to verify. No grease fittings at all on both trucks either in the u-joints or the slip yokes. And yes I know what to look for being a retired auto mechanic. I do all my own service work. When my son took his Tundra in for service (He had free oil changes) the dealer also told him they don't retorque the driveshaft either. Could never figure out why it's in the owners manual of both trucks in the first place it doesn't make sense. The bolts have Lock Tight on them from the factory why break them loose if you don't have to. Never ever seen these bolts come loose in all my years from the factory. Yet some people are paying for these services from dealers. Check for yourselves people.

 

My 21 still has greasable drive shafts.

Are greasable vs non greasable made differently (beside a zerk) to allow them to be lifetime?

 

Wow. This is the first I’ve heard of this anywhere. I’ve been greasing mine at every oil change. It’s not hard but kind of a pain to do while laying on my back. It would be a welcome improvement if this was not necessary.

I wonder if the 2022 driveshaft is a re-design or does Toyota still use the old one, permanently lube it, and not include zerks but just capped them off.

 

I don't consider it an improvement no matter what long life grease they use. I also would rather grease them. From what I've read most of the Tundras have been like this for at least 3 years now. U-joint crosses are not even drilled and tapped for grease fittings. Can't speak for '21 and down model year 4runners. Never been under one. Here you go not new news.
https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/2019-or-propeller-shaft-no-zerks-for-diy-lubrication.698026/
https://www.tundras.com/threads/201...drive-no-zerk-fittings-an-drive-shafts.37551/

 

You have to wonder how this will affect long term reliability of the driveshaft, especially with hard use. Although from what I’ve heard most dealers do not routinely lube them, and lots of DIYers neglect them as well. Yet we rarely hear of driveshaft failures.

 

so your 2022 runner has no grease fittings .. GM I have trucks and my ujoints had a vibration on the speed of around 60-65 MPH .. then I dropped the drive shaft and the ujoint had a binding [rust] ... I did the repair .. but the aftermarket u joints have grease fittings and no wear issues.. but in the rust belt drive shaft U joints should be damaged around 10 yrs .

 

I just picked up at 2022 from dealer Saturday evening. I noticed an odd noise on the way home. I took it to the dealer today to find out they say it needsfront differential replaced. Can’t believe this is still an issue.

 

I had the same issue with my 2011 Tacoma but only after I lifted it. ECGS fixed 2011, but it was no longer under warranty when I installed ECGS.

 

After reading all this I’m considering replacing mine with the ECGS just a a preventative measure. In have a 18ORP with 77K so why not.

 

That is correct neither my '22 4runner nor my son's '20 Tundra Pro have any driveshaft grease fittings. Yes I worry about the reliability of something you can't maintain. Yes I know Toyota does extensive testing but lately they have been doing some controversial things like dropping the trans oil coolers for the Tundras claiming they are not needed. Tell that to the guys who tow heavy. There's even retrofit kits out there for coolers using mostly OEM parts. Yes I don't understand what Toyota is thinking replacing entire front diffs instead of the needle bearing for a fail proof bushing. And yes this problem with the needle bearing shouldn't even be happening anymore. That's on Toyota. And yes I'm worried about reports of the same issues in the '22 4runners. To many questions above my pay grade I guess. Seems when the time comes go aftermarket for greaseable u-joints or buy a complete driveshaft from the dealer and that's not gonna happen. I would also go the ECGS bushing route if I encounter this issue rather than have the dealer warranty a diff only to relive the same problems. Would help if Toyota would explain some their reasoning for both issues but don't hold your breath. Made to last the warranty period I guess. What happened to "Kaizen".

 

Welcome to the club, mine is still at the dealership!!! Been there since last Monday. Dropped it off with 148 miles on it. Same issue, the front diff is supposed to be in tomorrow. ........

 

This is really unbelievable.

 

Maybe this rash of needle bearings problems will get my dealer to do mine even though I lifted it. The only problem is that the bearing has been silent as a mouse the last couple of weeks

 

Wow thanks for keeping us informed. Fingers crossed I've got 600 km on my '22 so far so good. Let us know how it goes after the front diff replacement. I would really an love an engineering explanation as to the diff changes according to part # they are replacing the diff with. Since the issue seems to be on going. Sounds like a needle bearing/bushing update is all that's needed as opposed to a complete diff replacement. Seems like Toyota is making a mountain out of a molehill so to speak. Why a diff change over a simple bushing/bearing change? Maybe it's easier from a factory/warranty perspective to just replace what already exists until the warranty runs out.

 

I do them every 10K miles. About a twenty minute job with a grease gun. Worth it to know it's done.

I realized with my last car that I spent more time and effort on records keeping and chasing down shitty service departments to make sure they did the work than it would have taken to just do the work myself.

Arguing with dealers and manufacturers to honor warranty work sucks.

So now I just do the work myself. At lease I'm sure it's done and done right.

Jason

 

My dealer said it was fine to drive and sent us home. Dealer said they’d call when the front differential came in.

 

My new 2022 4Runner bought September began similar symptoms within couple weeks of purchase. After 3 trips to dealer they replaced front differential, the ticket diagnosis Saud 'incorrect assembly of front differential caused premature failure, lots of metal found in front differential oil'. Tech said it was the 2nd brand new 2022 4runner that week with same fix.

 

It makes me think Toyota’s attitude is that the 5th Gen 4Runner is at the end of its manufacturing life, so it makes no sense to re-design the needle bearing/diff issue. Just keep throwing the existing replacement parts at it if and when they fail. The 6th Gen diff will probably be quite different.

 

Our 2020 OR has grease zerks on u-joints and slip yokes, front and rear.... when I pull it into the shop, they get grease about every 3k miles, as do the JBA UCA's, different grease.... same schedule.

 

Interesting discussion on the links you provided. From my experience, dealership’s didn’t bother greasing the u-joints on my Toyota’s that had zerks.

I’ve always done it myself but after reading these threads, I think I still need to grease them but not obsess about it, meaning very frequent intervals.

Maybe every couple of years for me. I barely drive 5k a year and I never do the water crossing thing.

I would be more concerned if I was playing in the water.

Back in the 80’s with my cars, I never greased, possibly out of ignorance, but I never had a U-joint failure either.

 

Update:
Service manager just emailed. He says the transfer case is in, but they did notice slight scoring to the front axles so he ordered those for replacement as well. They are supposed to arrive this afternoon so now ETA is tomorrow.
I'm not a mechanic, but this does this make sense for a 148 mile on the odometer 4R? I don't understand....is this possible?
Dave

 

Maybe the axle replacement is an “out of an abundance of caution,” especially since warranty is paying for it anyway. It actually does makes sense that a bad bearing would leave marks on the cv axle (weather it would be significant, I couldnt say, since I dont know if the axle is harder that the bearing.

Regardless, now you can eliminate the possibility a scored axle could cause a new bearing to go bad. That’s a good thing.

I imagine it could still go bad if the new diff and bearing havent actually been redesigned to eliminate the root problem that caused all this begin with.

 

Did you mean differential instead of transfer case?

 

the axles probably has scoring on the surface .. so around in the seal/bearing area will create failures ..

 

Just wrote what the service manager wrote “transfer case”. I hope he just had a brain fart. He emailed me a little ago, all set. I will pick it up in the morning. Hopefully it’s okay.