Fear the shimmy and the dealer. DIY rotation myself? Indulge my OCD please.

Hello ladies and gents. I know, stupid topic but no one else will listen to my cries so I turn to my 4Runner brethren. I tried to believe in the dealership's service department but after 1 messed up fender, 2 overfilled oil changes, and scratches on the dash I have been doing all my own maintenance on my latest 4Runner eeeexcept for the tire rotations. Had 2 done by the dealer and really don't want to go back. I don't have the famous vibration issue (knock on wood) but fear it showing up after a tire rotation.

I was curious what all of you do and what you think I should do (besides stop making new threads on this forum). Take it in for a "tire rotation only" or do it myself. I feel like if I let them do all the rotations the onus is on them but if I don't, they will try to pass it off on me. Of course, I could be bringing in to them and they still try to pass it off on me but still. What does an OCD riddled fella do? AKA what do you all do? Thanks. You're welcome. Thank you. Sorry.

(Also, recommendations on a good torque wrench are appreciated)

 

Lol. Make all the threads you want. Many of us enjoy the banter

I like to do my own tire rotation because it allows me to check up on bearings, tie rods, bushings, etc. I can milk a tire rotation into a half day job! But I also enjoys just wrenching. Just work safely, dont rush, and work safely. Be safe lol

 

Much obliged, sir.

I honestly am not the handiest of wrenchers but have a buddy who is a professional so I lean on his help. I can do the rotate. I prefer to bring it in. But the risk is too high after seeing how they've done on simple oil changes in the past. I am leaning towards doing it myself. So I guess you don't fear running into the issue and dealing with the dealer? I wish I could live so recklessly (I kid. OCD really sucks. Overanalyzing argh).

 

Channel that OCD into tire rotations and inspections lol.

The biggest thing with tire rotations is figuring out how to safely lift a whole side of a the 4runner at once. It’s not hard, but it’s just the consequences, you know…it’s important to get that right.

A good jack and a pair good 6ton stands, get some if you dont have them yet.

I would flip if my dealer scratched my dashboard. I never give them that opportunity though. At least for maintanance work.

 

No need to lift the whole side at once. Use your spare as a place holder, it’s good to check on it any ways.

 

Not to discourage you because I admire your willingness. But just be careful and do not rush.

I had a guy I work with change the oil in his girlfriends car and the Jack stand slipped and the car fell on him and killed him. Very sad.

Every time I hack something up I am extra careful now and think things through. I am always in a rush in general and this instance changed me.

I don’t even do a lot but like you could change or rotate tires or oil etc. Anyway sorry to digress I just want to share that story so everyone is careful.

 

As @Spare Parts said, just use your spare as a placeholder. That’s how I do it. That way you practice the whole process of changing a flat tire on the road: blocking the tires, getting out and assembling the tools, dropping the spare (then lubing the chain mechanism), cleaning and inspecting everything, proper torque, etc.
I just rotate front to back on the same side, as in the owners manual.

 

Really excellent point on using the spare. You have to check it and the chain anyway! You just changed my workflow! Thank you!

 

The shimmy is from unbalanced tires.

If you rotate the tires and get the shimmys, go get your tires balanced at a reputable tire shop with a Hunters road force balance machine.

 

Bingo this the best reason. Seen to too many unnecessary brake jobs done in my time. All the above posts are good advise. I know Toyota says rotate front to rear I don't. I move the fronts straight to the back and cross switch the rears to the front. This reverses the rotation of the cross switched tires and promotes more even wear over the lifetime of the tires. I torque all my wheels and recheck after about 75 miles especially aluminum. Go for a torque wrench that clicks at the set torque. Worst thing you can do to a torque wrench is not back it off to zero when your done. Then you will get a feel as to how tight they should be as most people tend to overtighten. And yes unevenly or improperly torqued wheels can cause shakes, shimmies and vibrations. Damn I miss my hoist. The older I get the more I dread getting up off the ground.

 

TRUE! I usually work on cardboard, but I had some extra carpet padding taking up space, so now I use that to line the area I’ll be crawling around on. It is pure luxury in comparison! Riiich corinthian closed cell foam! But dammit, I’m worth it lol.

I still have to get up and down and have to wait for my back to settle before making any sudden moves, but honestly, I consider it excercise since Im so out of shape haha

 

That is actually brilliant. I haven't touched the spare once nor thought to use it in that manner. Good stuff. Thank you.

Appreciate that. I don't want to end up regretting it and plan on doing it safely. I want to get some new equipment, jack, torque wrench, etc but may just do it on my buddies lift.

Good stuff. Thank you. I haven't even dropped the spare yet. I will get on that.

So many people rebalanced and still had the issue!! Dealer claimed it is from damaging.. something from overtightening the lugs.

Any suggestions on a good torque wrench? Yeah. I do the brakes myself. I love how they say I need a brake job when the pads are basically all there still.

 

Thanks everyone for your posts. I really appreciate it! Sounds like no one is really worried about the shimmy happening, or what to do if it does. I admire the "WHOGAF" attitude. I need more of that in my life. lol. I guess I will do it myself and pray I don't get the shimmy.

Any recommendations on a good torque wrench and jack? (still have no clue how the spare is lowered or how to use the jack. Figured no one used it.)

 

There's a lot of people that don't have their tires road force balanced.......not that that always solves the issue.......but it tends to have the best success rate.

Our trucks are really sensitive to tire balance. Not sure if its the hub-centric wheels or what. Bigger, heavier tires will accentuate the problem if the tires are not true and the balance isn't properly done.

 

I prefer "Click Type" Snapon, Mac or Matco tools as an retired mechanic in Canada for torque wrenches. As for floor jacks whatever works so that you can place a static jack stand under the frame. So as to safely work without relying on just the floor jack for support.

 

My friend, I am exactly like you. I kid you not. In my case however, maybe age started to chip away at my OCD, and Ive been better able to put things in the proper perspective. It’s not purely age, but maybe the other shit in life, out of your control, that comes with living long. A 4runner that has a little shimmy sometimes, that comes and goes depending on various factors….eh, doesnt impress me much anymore. I am slowly working my way to this attitude:



Regarding recommendations…pictures are worth a thousand words (at least in my case)


I got a pair of these 6 ton stands at a mom and pop autoparts store. I bought them because they have an extra pin to backup the ratchet/pawl system. I also put on a hard rubber cap on the head to keep it from scratching things.



Got the jack at harbor freight…good reviews…works fine.

I would only use the factory jack under duress. For when you need to change a flat.. get in, change tire, get out. If Im doing extended maintainance activities, it’s up on one or two jack stands, with a real 3ton jack positioned as a backup.

 

Yeah, about torque wrenches, just get a click type one at northern tool, tractor supply, or similar stores. You can spend as much money as you want on torque wrenches, but the cheapies are good enough for wheels.
I borrowed a torque wrench from thatbassguy, and we did a comparison. I had one that went to 75lb-ft, and he had one that went to 100. From what I recall I think I set both to 70 and they both clicked at the same amount of rotation on a bolt…so that guarantees they are at the very least, equally wrong. But they are consistent!

Unless you are repairing Pratt and Whitney turbines or building satellites, box store clicker type wrenches are probably good enough.

 

I do my own rotation because I use my own pattern. It's my own OCD.

Good jack stands and a good jack are definitely important. As @mac1usa mentioned, cars can fall if carelessly placed on jack stands, so be very careful and check that it won't fall before removing the tire.

I usually remove the 1st tire, then the second, reinstall the first tire in the second location before removing the 3rd, and so on until the last tire is installed in the first location. I tap on the tire while I snug up the lugs to help it center itself on the lugs (aftermarket wheels).

I don't ever get a wobble, except when I lose a weight in the mud or blast one off at the pay 'n' spray.

As far as a torque wrench; I use a $20 Harbor Freight torque wrench for my lugs.

 

Ha! I have the same philosophy about torque wrenches.

 

DIY, that way you can torque the lugs properly and inspect the moving parts, grease the drive shaft, etc. As far as dealership service.... just went through it on the 10K "free" service, never again! There was a day when service people at dealerships took pride in their jobs and if found, pointed out abnormalities, un fortunately I believe those days are long gone.. not that ALL service providers are that way, but, thinking very few still exist.

 

If you want a good torque wrench, pick up one from CDI. They manufacture them for Snap-On.

This model has the right range for torquing lug nuts. Not inexpensive, but a quality tool, that'll give accurate torque results:

CDI 1503MFRMH 1/2-Inch Drive Metal Handle Click TypeWrench, Torque Range 20 to 150-Ft.lbs

$186 CDI 1/2" Drive Adjustable Click Torque Wrench, Range 20-150 Ft Lbs / 34-197 Nm (1503MFRMH)

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000I1WMAW

 

thats actually not a horrible price for a certified calibrated torque wrench

 

Yep. I have a similar 3/8" drive model from CDI, that I use for engine assembly. Really nice/accurate torque wrenches.

 

Torque wrenches are typically most accurate in the middle of their range, so keep that in mind when selecting a torque wrench for a specific job.

The CDI torque wrench that I mentioned earlier has a range of 20-150 foot pounds, so it is just right for the recommended 83 foot pounds of torque specified for 4Runner lug nuts.

 

Engine builder here . . . I also use CDI torque wrenches. Good value and meets my quality/accuracy requirements. I build old motorcycle engines and do general auto maintenance so I don't need absolute precision.

I also believe the assembly method, torque sequence, and consistent _relative_ torque (in a collection of similar fasteners doing a single job such as wheel lugs, cylinder heads) is more important than absolute final torque value.

Real machinists (I'm home grown) and aircraft engineers can take your shots now . . . . ;-0

Jason

 

Good advice on quality tools and mid range accuracy.
BTW, the owner manual states 83 ft-lb for steel wheels (like the spare), and 76 ft-lb for aluminum. 7 ft-lbs seems to make a difference to Toyota.

 

You are all the best! I super appreciate the kind and helpful replies. Thank you all!

I appreciate the entirety of your post. I saved that first image. I will refer to it often haha Thank you for the recommendations as well.

Good intel. Thank you. And I literally chortled at the "equally wrong" bit. Love it. Thank you.

I honestly am dumbfounded that every time I have taken a Toyota in that there is an issue. I kept fighting myself about bringing it in for the wheel rotation "in case" of running into the shimmy, but at what cost. Scratched dashes, dented fenders, nail in tire, overfilled oil (that they couldn't fix on three visits). The list is endless.

PERFECT. Thank you. Ordering now. 1/2". Got it. Thanks again!

Ugh! I googled and a site trail4runner said to go to 85 ft lbs. So I guess the Pro wheels need a 1/2" wrench, torqued to 83 then? Glad you posted that. Thank you.

Thanks for this post. I love a pro's insight on stuff. CDI is what I plan to snag. Thank you.

Never trust google. A site said 85 ft lbs. I guess the Pro wheel is 83! Good to know. Thank you!

 

Glad to help! Be sure to back the torque down to zero or less when you're storing the wrench, and don't use the torque wrench to loosen fasteners. Both will help the wrench stay calibrated.