Why is Puerto Rico able to use 15W-40?

Makes sense. And I forgot to add a visual representation of dusty roads.

 

I think @4runningMan nailed it.

Lol!!

 

Meh my tacoma has 200k on it with on sale oil and up to 12,500 mile intervals. All in Florida where the dust is thick! Lol

 

I also off-road frequently, which consists of prolonged operation at low RPM's and low speed.

Do whatever you like with yours. I'll follow the manual. And, I plan on going much further than 200K with mine.

 

If Toyota is recommending 5W30 in Puerto Rico and South Africa (more countries if I keep digging for owners manuals), it is due to the US CAFE requirements only.

After 2010, they are trying to save 1/2 MPG anywhere they can.

If your engine only lasts 150K instead of 300K, it's long out of warranty, and not their problem.

I've also read that the Dual VVT-I needs a 0W20 thinner oil, but in Puerto Rico and South Africa they also use the same Dual VVT-I engine with 5W30.

South Africa also recommends using Premium Gas!

https://www.toyota.co.za/ranges/fj-cruiser

 

Oh I still have the Tacoma, on the way to 300k. And I have had the oil analysis done on it and the results have been great.

I also do a fair share if offroading with it and the 4runner Pro.

 

2020 FJ Cruiser Owner's Manual from South Africa

Reference Pages 526-527 (Gas and Oil Recommendations)

 

Yep. The thinner oils (0W-20 engine and 75W transfer case) are all recommended for CAFE reasons. There is written documentation from Toyota posted in this and other forums stating this.

 

Cape Town, South Africa is 33° S.

If you look up 33° N in the US, that's about as far south as Dallas, TX.

 

My Toyota Dealer just told me that they will not get reimbursed by ToyoGuard or ToyotaCare for anything outside of 0W20, so I'm stuck using their "free" oil for the next 4 oil changes.

 

Like I said, do whatever you want.

I did every 10K on my last 4runner, but I didn't work it nearly as hard as this one. I'm on dusty roads at least every other weekend, and hit the trails almost just as often.

I'm hoping to get 500K+ out of it, so I'm being good to it. Plus, I rotate my tires every 5K (like we all should), so it's not hard to change the oil while I'm at it.

 

Interesting. South Africa only offers 95 octane (for use at sea level) and 93 (use at high elevation). This article explains it well.
https://www.carmag.co.za/technical/93-vs-95-unleaded-do-you-really-need-higher-octane-petrol/



Edit: BTW, these are RON octane numbers. What US and Canadian drivers are more familiar with are the (RON +MON)/2 numbers on our pumps, the result is about 4-6 points lower than RON. So their premium/mid grades roughly match our 91/87.

 

Totally agree everyone way over-thinks the oil put in your vehicle what the manual says and/or what's stamped on the filler screw - end of story.

 

It's what the Toyota Owner's Manual says is that we are talking about...

"An oil with a higher viscosity (one with a higher value) may be BETTER SUITED if the vehicle is operated at high speeds, or under extreme load conditions."

I guess living at 1200 meters elevation, I do benefit from using lower octane.

 

Well, I think everyone here would agree that oil changes are the single most important maintenance item for any internal combustion vehicle. And that manufacturers have very specific and high standards for the oil used, because it so important for things like longevity, performance, emissions and fuel economy. And that some of these goals may be in conflict, requiring choices and trade offs.

Thus, everyone should also agree that it's fair to be concerned about the possibility of manufacturers specifying particular oils in order to maximize fuel economy at the expense of longevity.

Indeed, the facts that have come out in this discussion show that Toyota's recommendation for 0-20 in North America is likely a result of them prioritizing fuel economy over other considerations.

Do any of us know with 100% certainty that 0-20 will reduce the life of our engines, relative to a higher viscosity oil that also meets Toyota's requirements? No. But it's quite logical to suspect that this is the case.

Thus the significance of this discussion. Plenty of people quite rightly want to maximize the life of their engines. And if a 30 weight oil would be better at that than a 20 weight, it's perfectly reasonable for them to want to know this.

I for one will be switching to 0-30 or 5-30 when I start doing my own changes.

 

Gas mileage isn't the only reason for varying viscosities. The thinner oil is also because of much tighter tolerances in today's engines than years ago. I'm in New England I live in 90 and humid (literally today) but also snow storms all winter. I have always ran what every manufacturer said to in all my vehicles. I follow the little chart in the manual which shows the ranges, ends up I always go with the "recommended" oil.

 

This ^

I don't know why this is so hard to understand.

This plus the facts of Toyota's recommendations for the same engine in different parts of the world show that 0-20 is not necessarily the best for us in all cases.

No one is saying that someone's dumb for using 0-20 or whatever else is printed on the oil cap. We're just saying that a higher weight may be better for longevity (instead of fuel economy) and is certainly better for some use cases.

Simple.

 

I'm still trying to figure out how you got your screen name

 

Ah, some things will forever remain mysterious

(That 30 weight is better than 20 weight in some circumstances is not one of those things).

 

Yep

 

There is nothing about “tighter tolerances” in today’s engines that require thinner motor oil. The 5th Gen 4Runner has been out since 2010, it’s engine was probably being designed in 2007. It’s an ancient pig.

0W20 weight oil is specified in the owners manual only to try to squeeze out a few tenths of an MPG for CAFE reasons.

Go back and re-read post #16. And read the EPA letter, from 2000 when Ford and Honda were trying to get EPA approval to use 5W20 for their emissions and fuel economy qualification.
https://www.4runners.com/threads/why-is-puerto-rico-able-to-use-15w-40.18928/#post-229077

 

Yep

 

Actually there are plenty of sources discussing newer engines having tighter tolerances for exactly that purpose - running lower viscosity oil for CAFE compliance. Bearing clearances dictate oil viscosity, and the manufacturers are going with lighter viscosities for this reason. No, I'm not going to do your research for you. Google is your friend.

 

As has been pointed out, we’re talking about an engine designed a dozen years ago.

When they recommended 5-30.

You don’t need to be Sherlock to deduce that 0-20 is being recommended for MPG. The evidence is abundant.

 

You might want to check out how bearing clearances are designed into an engine before citing the "dozen years ago" mantra. Just do the research before you respond.

 

I did. A dozen years ago Toyota recommended 5-30 for the 1GR-FE.

No one has presented any evidence that Toyota since redesigned the internals of this engine in order to accommodate 0-20.

Many people have presented evidence that 0-20 is not required for the current 1GR-FE outside of North America.

Further, people have presented evidence that 0-20 is NOT recommended -- even in North American -- for current 4Runners operated at high speeds or under heavy load.

As I said before, we don't know for sure that 0-20 shortens the life of the engine. It may work wonderfully. It's just that all signs point to 0-20 being recommended for MPG, and there being no harm to the engine (and logically probably a benefit) to using a 30 weight instead.

This is the only point I'm making. There's no reason to think 30 weight is bad for this engine, based on what Toyota itself recommends. And there's good reason to think that they were prioritizing MPG over other considerations when recommending 0-20.

 

That screams "ignorance is bliss." You're smarter than than, Single. I've read your posts.

We're not talking what the manual says. You started this over whether there's any way the engine *can* or *should* require a different viscosity. The answer is yes if you will research it rather than just reacting.

 

I guess I'm confused, again.

The manual states that 4runners in Puerto Rico should run 5W-30, 10W-30, or 15W-30 depending on conditions. So, unless the engine is somehow mechanically different in Puerto Rico, I don't see a reason not to run 5W-30 here in the US, other than CAFE reasons.

That said, I'm running 0W-20 as that's what the manual states.

 

Well, I guess this is one kind of debate strategy. Deflect, imply you have superior knowledge (but just can't be bothered to prove it) and throw in a personal attack for good measure.

Some people gonna notice you didn't actually refute anything I've said.

Fact: Toyota used to recommend 30 weight for the 1GR-FE.
Fact: Toyota still recommends 30 weight for the current 1GR-FE in jurisdictions that don't have CAFE.
Fact: Toyota recommends 30 weight in the USA for 4Rs under heavy load.
Fact: Automakers generally have moved to 0-20 as part of an attempt to increase MPG and meet regulatory standards.

All of this has been documented in this thread. People who are thoughtful can make up their own minds about what the above facts suggest.

Other people will just believe what they want to believe, regardless of the facts. Since there's so many of them around on this thread, it's no longer worth discussing. So I'm out.

Y'all have a wonderful evening and thanks for coming! You can catch my next act at the Telematics Rant!

 

I did some research asking Mr Google about “

$54 0w20 oil Toyota/ exxon mobil Case of 6 Quarts Full Synthetic TGMO SN 0W-20 Oil

0w20 oil tighter engine clearances bearings”.
And almost every article was about race car engines or hobbiest builders of high performance engines. Not a one about regular consumer car engines.

If you’ve been talking to a different friendly Google who has different information about the 4Runner engine’s tightness, please pass it on. We’re all ears.