These “experts” at the dealership...

The auto industry is very broken in general. Times have changed and the industry kinda got left behind. When you look at the pay for technicians it’s no wonder why it’s hard to find a great tech.

New inexperienced guys that are just starting off and learning, are paid hourly. Real technicians are paid flat rate, meaning they get paid X amount of money for job Y. There is a labor time for everything, that’s what you will get. Warranty pay is absolutely garbage, customer pay is generally warranty x1.5 for the same job. When a warranty repair is made the dealership pays for the parts and labor and submits the claim to manufacturer for reimbursement, if the manufacturer decides after the fact that the tech wasn’t certified on the system they repaired, or paper work wasn’t spot on, or they charged out $1000 in parts but missed an o-ring, the whole claim can be rejected and the dealer is forced to eat that entire cost, and as everyone knows... things roll down hill.

Plus there is a surprisingly large amount of manufacturers that do not pay for diagnosis under warranty. They will pay you to swap the part that is bad and they expect the diagnosis that you don’t get paid to perform to be thorough and spot on accurate. So the issue you run into is the truly smart knowledgeable tech with all the legit training experience and certification get to diagnose car for free and then perform warranty repairs for 1/3 less time than the guys not certified working on customer pay jobs. The dealers logic is that you get paid more per hour the more certified you so your coming out ahead, but that doesn’t equate to larger paycheck because you get screwed left and right.

When I would get a vehicle for example - I’d give every car a through look over, make a list of what other items it needed, I’d look up the labor times for each repair, then browse the repair manual procedures for each item to note what one time use torque to yield bolts and gaskets are required to do the job correctly, send it parts to quote it out, they forward it to the writer, and then the writer calls the customer. If the customer declines the work, I literally wasted my time doing that, that’s 45 minutes to an hour of work I will not get paid for. Even if the customer buys the job at the quoted flat rate price, taking the time to look up the procedures and make sure I have all the correct hardware “required” hardware is me donating my time. You’d be floored to see how rare it is for a tech to actually replace one time use hardware because when every second counts it’s simply not worth losing money to look up bolts that’s are unlikely to fail if reused.

A master tech doing lots of diag and problem cars turning 30 hours of billable time a week at $35-40/hr will make less money than a regular flat rate hack who is going to turn 65 hours a week gaming the system and cutting as many corners as possible without the customer noticing at $25-26/hr. Any experienced tech can bang out a ton of hours on easily BS customer pay gravy work, but you won’t have the opportunity to do the same if you’re highly certified. While low level flat rate gets a “major“ tune up maintenance with 4 tires and alignment, he’s going to spend the next 2.5 actual hours of his day doing oil change, spark plugs, air filter, pollen filter, 4 tires, and alignment for 8 hours of flat rate pay while the engine performance specialist is going to replace the pistons in the engine under warranty for oil consumption... also for 8 hours of pay.

The truly great top level tech are leaving the industry at a crazy pace - someone that can do mechanics, welding, diagnostics, electrical, hydraulics, plumbing, HVAC, networking systems, radar/laser/lidar/doppler calibrations, etc is more valuable outside of their own industry.

Then there’s the new guys, the inexperienced trainees that work in the quick lube doing maintenance. They are the guys stripping your skid plate bolts and half-assing safety inspections, there is next to zero chance they are actually performing the maintenance procedure and retorque the prop shaft bolts for example, and nobody is dropping your spare to make sure it’s properly inflated. They are banging out an oil change, tightening tires by feel with an impact gun, and looking to see if they can sell you brakes, tires, or blanket recommendation for fluid flushes.

It does suck, but customers have also brought this on themselves to a point. Statistically vehicles are the largest purchase the vast majority of population will make outside of residential property, but they want to fixed and maintained the cheapest and fastest way possible. I just saw a perfect example on Facebook the other day in a local group. Someone was asking for shop suggestions and someone suggested a local 4x4 shop, the OP’s response was “I’ve been going there for a while, they always do great work but they are on the expensive side”. The general public doesn’t feel great work is worth paying for. There’s a lot of shops that don’t feel like great work is worth paying for either, they will happily take cheaters and thief’s that produce the most billable hours, even if it means comebacks for not fixing it correctly, or the occasional wheel falls off... they have insurance. Car dealers as a whole don’t care about much beyond new vehicle sales numbers.

Automotive enthusiasts and a rare handful of dedicated technicians are really the only groups that care how broken it all is.

 

How would you be able to tell if they did any of these things to your rig? I guess you wouldn't be able to unless you changed your own oil after they did it??

 

I changed my own oil this past Wednesday and discovered everything I listed.

 

Agree.

REI is a cool place, the employees are part owners in the company and they are mostly people who go out and enjoy the outdoors themselves.

Car dealership employees don’t all care about the brand they sell, they aren’t taking out their vehicles and learning about them. They just show up to work it as a job.

That’s the difference in most cases, it’s passion.

 

what kinda bike is that?

 

https://us.earlyrider.com/products/trail-16?variant=21345605648463

 

https://www.4runners.com/threads/warranty-repairs.15880/#post-180966

 

Solo Stove... love ours...

The first oil change I went to here in IL the computer said it was an SR5 when it popped up on the screen.... I chuckled and gave the service guys a hard time. This was one of the friendliest dealers I've been to... Family Toyota in Burleson, TX takes the best dealership award... I do miss them...

 

I was getting an oil change at a dealership and told the tech I would be back after I buy a case of filters for my truck. He says,”hold on, here you go” and handed me a case for free. He then said “all these old folks come in here for oil changes when they don’t need them and we just put them on the rack for a half hour without doing anything” . That made me pretty sad.

 

That sucks.

 

I don't use facebook, ever, but I posted an almost identical response to a guy asking for a shop in south central Oregon over on Yotatech forums. I said the labor was a touch expensive, but I feel it's well worth it. They also back their work 100%. If it's not right, take it back in, and they fix it for free.
I've had some problems with them. One of their techs, I should say. He was one of the "slop it together and hope no one notices" types. He was a new trainee though. He gave me the truck, my 87 4Runner, with almost all the vacuum lines off. That's just what I noticed. When I brought it back, we found he'd put the valve cover gasket in upside down, and gooped on RTV to make it seal up, let alone stay in. Broke the water pump somehow, and the alternator. It was a clusterf*&^. They fixed EVERYthing for free, including the battery, the bad alternator had shorted a cell in. They spent a lot more of their own money than I had. The kid got fired, too. The boss was PO'ed.

Anyway, point is, since then, I've gone back to them, more than willing to pay their rates. Small price for the insurance of knowing their work will be right, or they'll make it that way. I've never had a bit of trouble with them. I'll pay their rates gladly for work I can't do any more.

Just my experience.
Pat☺

 

As an REI member, I love buying products there. I get 10% back yearly, the quality is amazing, you can return things up to a year later even used (some limitations), and the customer service is outstanding.
Lots of off-road vehicles there every time.

 

In Canada all 4Runners are 4X4 and to my knowledge always have been. I was very surprised and frankly disappointed to learn they even offer the 4Runnner in 2WD in US. I mean it's a 4Runner...it has "4" in it's freakin' name.

Kind of like how all Subaru's are AWD, all 4Runners should be 4WD but some people really want to save a few grand I guess instead of just buying a different vehicle.

Buying a 2WD 4Runner to me is like buying a 7 series BMW but optioning manual windows to save some money. Makes no sense.

 

Holy hot damn that's gorgeous!

 

Went to have new tires put on yesterday. I watched the kid zip off the lugs without taking off the center caps first. I went home to see if I got lucky. I didn’t. All 4 are scored. 4RUNNER has 1000 miles on it.

Went back and the manager quickly said he’d get 4 new ones from the dealership.

I tried to channel my dads patience and did quite well. Manager was great, I said I’m sure you’ll tell the tech, but make sure you mention I wasn’t angry, and make it a teachable experience. Kid was young, but he was working hard and I could see that. Manager agreed and said speed doesn’t matter if you are careless and create problems. Made me feel lots better.

 

The best you can expect today is for a shop to at least own up to what they've done. Even that is getting harder and harder to come by. "It wasn't us. Can you prove it?" Been there more than once... sad. Might as well say "Go F yourself, I couldn't care less about your business because you hold me accountable for my work." It is what it is.. we are enthusiasts and far from the norm. Most folks would never notice scored center caps, rashed wheels, cross-threaded bolts, or oil spils under the hood. The mechanics know this, and take advantage of it.

 

JR7, excellent attitude to take with the manager. Young workers can’t get better without help from those of us who’ve been there, done that.

 

Got the new caps the next day. Manager said they are having a big meeting soon to address some sloppiness in the shop. Also nice to see.

I had thought about removing the caps prior to the service, as well as dropping the spare, but forgot. A little foresight helps, but only if you follow through. Oh well.