Will replacing shocks on a 2016 SR5 Premium with Bilstein 5100's improve "nose dive" when breaking?

I have a 2016 4Runner SR5 Premium 4X4 (XP Package) and would like to know if anyone has replaced stock shock with Bilstein 5100's (or any other aftermarket shock) to minimize the "nose dive" effect when breaking?

 

Yes it will, slightly with stock coils I assume and remedy it if swapped with aftermarket coils.

 

Thanks John.

Sounds like I need to replace the factory coils (in addition to the shocks) to minimize or resolve this "nose dive" effect when braking. Unless there is some reason that Toyota designed the 4Runner to react this way, I want to correct it.

Thanks again for your input!

Robert

 

I think they use soft springs to make the ride more comfortable. I like the ride better with aftermarket shocks and springs.

 

I just replaced my shocks and kept the stock coils. It significantly reduced my nose dive. The stock shocks are valved pretty soft. Bilsteins are much firmer.

Our stock coils are something close to 600lb coils up front. Most replacement coils are 600lb coils as well. If you replace your stock 600lb coil with an aftermarket 600lb coil, you haven't done anything to improve the nose dive. You can buy stiffer coils, but the purpose of that is to accommodate a constant load (like a bumper and winch). If you add stiffer coils to your truck with no weight, you could risk being unhappy with the way it rides.

You might want to consider trying it out with the 5100's and your stock coils first to see if you're happy with the reduction in nose dive the shocks provide with the stiffer valving. If you're unhappy with that result, get some stiffer coils.

 

Did you raise your height with the bilstein struts? If so that increased your effective spring rate by adding preload to the spring. The idea that new shocks will prevent brake dive is a bit of a misnomer. Only spring rate can do that. The valving only damps (controls) the rate of expansion and contraction of the coil in a smooth manner. The new shocks may have slowed the dive so it feels better but without springs it will still dive just as far.

 

That's an interesting observation, but I'm not sure how it squares with the effect of XREAS. That system uses the shocks to reduce brake dive and body roll by sending additional hydraulic fluid to firm the shocks that are compressing the most with the shifting weight of the vehicle. I can guarantee it makes a big difference. This is why I've been wondering if the effects of XREAS could be duplicated -- or at least approached -- with shocks that have piggyback hydraulic reservoirs.

 

I'm not familiar with the xreas system at all so I can't speak to how it works other that dramatically slowing the valving for split seconds to disperse the load back to the rear. I was talking only in terms of a traditional valve and spring suspension. It's something we deal with a lot racing motorcycle because everything is hyper sensitive to weight of rider, motorcycle and personal braking characteristics.

 

So maybe just to clarify my statement. Assuming brake pressure, brake distance and time are all the same a new shock will better control the rate at which front dives make for a more "planted" feel but the physical compression distance of the spring will likely be the same if the spring is unchanged.

Where things like xreas and advanced digital suspension usually works is by slowing the rate of compression enough that the load is removed before complete compression under normal circumstances. Variable valving is awesome tech and it no doubt helps so im not trying to take that away from it nor am I an expert in it.

I run remote res rear shock on my triumph and that helps because you can get a lot more fluid in the system for the length of the shock body. It help dissipate heat really well. Variable valved shocks (not sure if that's a thing on most lower end units) allow you to control high and low speed compression. Low speed is things like body roll while high speed helps in heavy braking and especially sharp bumps.

 

That makes sense. Thanks for the info.

 

I did raise the height, but doing so does not preload the springs.

The springs are not compressed anymore than they were before by raising the lower spring perch. I raised the height of the spring perch, which in turn raises the vehicle......and the truck still weighs the same as it did before. Therefore, spring rate does not change.

The only difference is the valving of the shocks, which can make a big difference in the way a vehicle handles. Think of the way progressive valving handles vs digressive valving....or adding compression adjusters to shocks.

 

My Eibach Pro Truck Lift (4 springs 4 shocks) eliminated the body roll and significantly reduces nose dive on braking. It handles curves 100% better. Ride is firm but not punishing on bumpy roads.

Spring rate for front Eibach Coils = 662lbs Spring rate for rear Eibach Coils = 206lbs +/- 2% Only time I notice nose dive on braking is in emergency braking situations. Otherwise nosedive is eliminated.

 

Great thread. I would also like to reduce nose dive and am looking for a former ride. I do not want any lift. Suggestions for stock suspension height setup?

 

The bilstein struts are the same length as the factory strut to maintain proper suspension travel. If you move the collar upward on the body the length of the strut does not change therefore you must compress the spring more to reach that perch.

 

If raising the spring also raises the truck, then you are not compressing it. All you're doing is raising the at rest position.

 

I would think a digressive valved shock would be the best for this. Bilstein are digressive valved. I believe Icon is as well. My truck is much less floaty with Bilsteins, in spite of having added hundreds of pounds of armor, etc.

It seems that most reputable aftermarket shocks will accomplish this. I think the stock shocks are very soft valved.

 

I put 5100’s on my 16 right after I purchased it. I raised the front 1”, so the setting was .85 of the shocks. I can say it has drastically reduced the nose dive, it is perfect now while braking.

 

I have a day star leveling kit I am looking for some upgraded springs and shocks without adding any additional lift. I would like to upgrade the ride quality of stock what is a good option?

 

You aren't elongating the strut when you raise the lower post. The strut is internally fixed for maximum length which is the same regardless of the position you install the lower. You raise the truck by reducing static sag of the suspension by preloading the spring.

 

Your truck doesn't sit at maximum droop. Height is determined by the spring position, therefore the spring rate is the same at any height

 

I put Bilstiens all around on my '15 SR5, fronts at .85, stock springs. Much better in handling and ride. Significantly reduced nose dive.

 

Honestly I think we are just talking around each other lol. I agree that bilstein 5100 struts are a great option to improve ride quality and adding lift (or not if selected)! Had them on my old Ram and loved them. Only didn't do them on the t4r because I didn't want to deal with doing the spring transfer which is sketchy with the crap rental coil spring compressors.

 

I believe that raising the perch would affect the spring rate at the top of up travel, but not at resting height. The initial impact should stay the same, because you're just riding higher(or lower, depending how you look at it) in the shock's range of motion.

I have a (cheap) spring compressor, and I have avoided using it ever since I had enough money to not HAVE to.


What shocks did you do on the 4runner? Or, running stock? I have 6112's and the shop I ordered them from assembled them for me free of charge. Thank God!

 

I decided to bite the bullet and get an Ironman 4x4 stage 2 kit to try. It was a bit of build creep from my original plan but I'm happy with the stance on the truck right now and comfortable knowing the UCAs are done. Need to sort out wheels and tires now.

 

I installed 5100’s all around on my 2017 SR5 Premium RWD, and no better with the dive. Set to .85”. Will likely try some different springs. The ride is fantastic, so we’ll see what happens.
My 15 Tacoma Off Road is always level even when you hammer the brakes to the floor. That’s what I’d like to accomplish with the 4R.

 

One would think a RWD would have less brake dive due to less weight in the front...

 

This right here^
@LKN4Runner I run 5100's on all four corners, and upgraded springs (OME in front, ICON rear coils).

 

I find towing reduces Nose Dive dramatically……

 

I put 5100s all around on my 2017 and 2019 with stock springs and a .85 lift in the front only. A much better drive IMO.